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The Forum > Article Comments > The clock is ticking. Time to wear the burqa. > Comments

The clock is ticking. Time to wear the burqa. : Comments

By Najla Turk, published 24/8/2017

An open letter to Pauline Hanson on the wearing of the burka.

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Preachy. Special, 'Look at Moi'. Entitled. Patronising.

What I want to hear instead is that ALL girls can attend school on an equal basis as boys. That they are being supported in wearing the school uniform and making the most of their school years. NOT being limited in any way by claimed 'modesty', gender difference that negatively stereotypes and restricts girls, based on 'cultural' or 'religious' edict.
Posted by leoj, Thursday, 24 August 2017 8:59:02 AM
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Good on you Najla.
Wear what you wish to.
I do.
Posted by ateday, Thursday, 24 August 2017 9:33:09 AM
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<i>"Australia is an immigration nation with almost half of our population born overseas." </i>

Last year's census figure was 28% born overseas. Maybe every second Australian has at least one parent born overseas - I am not sure of this.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/lookup/3412.0Media%20Release12015-16
Posted by SingletonEngineer, Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:28:50 AM
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Najla, you state
"Give Australians a fair go and allow them to freely express their culture, race and faith in ways that may help strengthen Multicultural Australia".
If an Australian is a Nazi believing and following the teachings of Hitler we should give him or her a "fair go" notwithstanding that those beliefs are based on the teachings of a perverted mass murderer? ( I know one holocaust denier was denied entry to Australia- back when common sense prevailed here)

Mohammed "married" a 6 year old girl and "consummated" the marriage when she was nine. He conquered a tribe of Jews and beheaded every adult male, selling all women and children into slavery.In the Koran he specifically authorises the murder of prisoners of war who will not convert to his teachings.

Islam is based on his teaching and Nazism is based on Hitler's teaching. If Mohammed were alive today in any liberal democracy he would be gaoled for life as a paedophile and war criminal. Hitler committed suicide before he could be hung.

We are supposed to give a " fair go" to people who believe in the teaching of these men ?

I hope not.
Posted by Old Man, Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:46:55 AM
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This woman doesn't cover her face, so what's her problem? She apparently doesn't have the 'guts' (her word) to cover her face. What a bloody ridiculous thing to say. 'It takes guts to be a walking tent'. It takes lunacy, that's what takes.

I refuse to regard as a fellow human being a walking tent. I don't give a damn whether these freaks are forced to cover up or not. I am not interested in their womanly rights, nor in the possibility they are treated like dirt by Muslim men. My only concern is the insult to Australia and the fact that our cowardly politicians do nothing about it, being more concerned about an alien, mediaeval religion than they are about the majority population. Pauline Hanson is the ONLY Australian politician who is not a coward, no matter what her other faults are.

This woman isn't very good with numbers, either. 28% is not half the population as she thinks it is. And 23% of immigrants are Asian (Chinese etc), NOT Muslims.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:48:42 AM
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Yeah, wear whatever you like, even a Ned Kelly steel burqa. It's no skin off my nose, just a symbol of medieval female suppression!

Popular in precincts, where women can't go out alone in public, drive a car or vote! And several respectful steps behind their lord and master, when out in public!

Personally, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, I believe women, wearing only slippers, a hat and a smile, (baby making machines) ought to be chained to the bed post with just enough slack to reach the kitchen.

Always providing, it remains a "completely" voluntary convention and supported by women, guided always by, a fanatical, brainwashed fundamentalism!

And enforced by armed men ever ready, willing and able to shoot school girls in the head for daring to question their authority!

And in northern Pakistan, far cheaper, quicker and more convenient than a contested (stone the crow) divorce!

And in one notable televised example, welcomed by the little Lady, who could bear no more and with a rebellious, get it over with sh!te head, welcomed her permanent release from sexual subversion!

Yeah let's bring on the burqa as the essential first step to imposing a completely disgraced and disreputable medieval culture on a freedom loving Australia, where, to be fair, things like burqas, were and remain completely foreign to a more enlightened culture! When in Rome!

Even so, ought to be required dress code for some folks in our nation's parliaments, along with taped mouths! And just to give their brains a chance to catch up!

And just so appropriate in Mz Hansen's case? A bag over the head would work just as well for me! But then, nudge nudge, after thirty years of celibacy, I'm not fussy!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:54:54 AM
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'The right to tell you to go and get stuffed.'
- It's an Aussie thing, and if you don't get it then you're not really Aussie.

So you got your stats wrong, but I'm not going to nitpick.
All I want to say is that I belong to the group that don't identify as immigrants, who's familys have been here forever, further back than ANZAC...

Even when I was growing up things were a lot different.
We'd make fun of everyone and everything, and it didn't seem as serious as everyone takes it today, no more so than if you bought a stupid looking Tshirt or a stupid pair of shoes, you'd get humiliated and made fun of for it.

But one thing for me about Australian culture was the right to be free from everybody elses culture, the right to tell yours or anybody else's culture that sought to impose on my right to be free from others cultures - to go and get stuffed.

I think foreigners / immigrants saw Australia as having no culture, and saw it as a fresh canvas, an easy target to move their own cultures into, but you missed the whole point of what Australia was.
(I'd say is but I'm not sure anymore)
In many ways it's been open slather on our way of life; the one in which we we're free from being imposed upon.

...And so things have changed and Australia's a lot more multicultural now.
And you guys the 'immigrant Aussies' want the equality to be able to freely express your own cultures.

Now I'm not sure if we're going to be able to all get along, but one thing that you really have to learn about being an Aussie, something that even comes before religion; is that everyone has the upspoken right to tell everybody else that they can go and get stuffed.

Accept and understand that, and we might be able to learn to live together.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:15:21 AM
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Why, a Burqa is very handy when you want to drive a car with more passengers than seat-belts...

Everyone should be able to wear whatever they like, if any - including when riding a bicycle!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:39:16 AM
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Quote: about "rule of law and equality is to give people a 'fair' go." So what does a Muslim know or believe about law and equality? Wow, a Muslim lecturing those evil infidels on morality!

Law, at least that understood in the West, is totally different from the barbaric, vague, and unequal thing called sharia that her religion teaches. Even the use of the word "equality" is a travesty. In Islam, according to the Quran, Muslims are the "best of peoples" and non-Muslims are "lower than animals". How cute. In Islam, Non-muslims are never equal to Muslims. Period.

Putting semantics and dogma aside, a simple look at Islamic societies tells one all that is needed about her religion. Muslims have ruined their countries with their hate, discrimination and violence, and they come to the West with Allah ("I will cast Terror") and Mohammad ("I am made victorious with terror") in their hearts. What could go wrong?

Has Ms Turk been to Egypt recently? Maybe she would notice far more burqas now. Does she ask why? Of course not, she is Muslim and Muslims are unable to reflect on their religion. If there is a problem, it must be the fault of those horrible nonbelievers.

Lady, your hijab sends a clear signal that you accept without question the hate and violence promoted in the Quran. It tells everyone that you support and accept the vile deeds of Mohammad in the sunnah, including attacking others, plunder, murder, rape, torture and enslavement of men, women and children. You must be so proud.

PS: in your previous article you didn't reply about what passages you referred to when saying "The Prophet Muhammad taught Muslims that no-one can be a person of faith if his neighbour does not feel safe from him or her." Would what be Quran 7:4? Ha ha. And where exactly does Islam teach "good conduct, social interaction, justice and kindnes"?
Posted by kactuz, Thursday, 24 August 2017 1:00:00 PM
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Pete Smith (Quadrant Online today) believes that the burka should be “mercilessly parodied”, and “holding it up to continual ridicule is entirely appropriate.” But the burka is really a peripheral issue, the real threat being being Islam itself which is a “real, present and growing threat to our way of life.”

I don't know what he would make of the title of this piece: “The clock is ticking. Time to wear the burqa”, which sounds more than just a little threatening.

Islam's values are not our values, and those who do hold its values, “  however intrinsically peaceful they happen to be, are part of the problem”. Also “Apologists and appeasers”, our politicians, churches and large parts of the general population are part of the problem These people have no will to fight.

And, what's the best these snowflakes can do against Muslim terrorism? Mutter something about standing shoulder to shoulder, and putting up ugly bollards as though terrorism should be accepted in the West as part of our every day existence.

There has never been a logical, sane reason for Muslim immigration.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 24 August 2017 1:23:15 PM
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ttbn,

Ref the bollards where ever crowds are likely to gather.

Be it known that a way through the bollards must be left for trucks, especially the ones called Fire Engines!!
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 24 August 2017 1:33:01 PM
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Thanks, Is Mise. It certainly gets more ridiculous – and dangerous – every day.

I have just been listening, on an ABC podcast, to an interview with an Islamic scholar, Prof. Elham Manea (female) from the university of Zurich. This lady says that the burka is NOT an Islamic garment. It is “anti-human” and “totalitarian”

Brandis and Wong, she said, were 'naive”, “even racist” to suggest that the burka is a religious garment. It is a tribal tradition of the Salifis and tribes in rural Saudi Arabia, where the women are brainwashed into thinking that they must cover up.

Nothing to with Islam – as the saying goes.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 24 August 2017 2:38:58 PM
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Atta Madam N*ppy Ninja

All women should be required to don Middle Ages Nun-ware http://www.tumbit.com/news-image/11609/original/spanish-nun-threatened-for-casting-doubt-on-virgin-mary.jpg .
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 24 August 2017 6:02:18 PM
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Head coverings are required on woman in many religious sects.

For example within Christianity, Islam and Shinto (like http://pm1.narvii.com/6381/ab5e63c6887aaaec9c75888ab3941669a6360cd0_hq.jpg )
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 24 August 2017 6:17:18 PM
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The laws of every organised society form
a complicated pattern of balanced freedoms
and restrictions. Some people think of laws
as the natural enemies of freedom. Anarchists
believe that all systems of government and
laws destroy liberty. Most people believe
that the laws both limit and protect the freedom
of an individual. For example, it forbids people
to hit others. But it also guarantees that people
will be free from being hit.

The major reason for restricting freedom is to
prevent harm to others. To achieve the goal of
equal freedom for everyone, a government may have to
restrict the liberty of certain individuals or
groups to act in certain ways. Society limits
personal freedom in order to maintain order and
keep things running smoothly.

Also, every person must accept certain duties and
responsibilities to maintain and protect society.
Many of these duties limit freedom. For example, a
citizen has a duty to vote, to pay taxes, and to serve
on a jury. The idea of personal freedom has nearly
always carried with it some amount of duty to
society.

Therefore much as I support the right of people being
able to wear whatever clothing they want I do not agree for
a need in our country for women to wear full face veils.

We cannot accept to have in our country women who are
prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life,
and deprived of identity.

The burqa is not a sign of religion. It is a sign of
subservience. To me it is a garment that symbolises
the systematic subjugation of women. The very purpose
of the burqa is to divide the wearer from the rest of
the world. Unacceptable in Australia.

Arguments about freedom of religion and freedom of
expression are obtuse when the majority of those
who don the burqa are forced to do so by either
cultural and familial expectations.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 24 August 2017 6:25:02 PM
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Niqab is little different, a post box slot.

Although to some feminists both are no different, no more confrontational than Natasha Stott-Despoja's Doc Martens. Boots that really earned their keep. Icons.

Natasha was able to talk about her boots just as later on women were given a podium to millions to talk about their Islamic headwear. Let the boots/Muslim headdresses talk.

Gosh how 'Progressive' their ABC has been over the years, adding to, guiding the debate, as it is wont to do,

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4111040.htm
Posted by leoj, Thursday, 24 August 2017 7:56:48 PM
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Have to agree with Foxy and add, the burqa, little more than a symbolic chain identifying owned property? As identified more liberally in my former comment/lascivious lewd levity.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 24 August 2017 8:48:04 PM
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«The major reason for restricting freedom is to prevent harm to others.»

So far so good, I agree - but are there any other VALID reasons?

«Also, every person must accept certain duties and responsibilities to maintain and protect society.»

PROVIDED that they freely agreed to belong to that society to begin with.
Otherwise, for those who did not, their only morally-binding obligation is as you stated earlier - to prevent harm to others.

«The burqa is not a sign of religion. It is a sign of subservience.»

By that same logic, so are seat-belts.
How can you say that it's OK to be subservient to one, but not to the other?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 24 August 2017 8:50:21 PM
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Yuyutsu

seat belts save lives. The burqa oppresses lives.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 24 August 2017 9:47:05 PM
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Dear readers thank you for taking the time to comment. I wholeheartedly respect our own experiences and perceptions shape our thinking and we are all entitled to an opinion. I hope no offence is taken but I simply hope to caste some light from personal experiences, less islamic teachings and doctrines.

Hi Leoj First revelation from quran was "read!". It is a duty on muslims to read and gain knowledge. Unfortunately a country's 'culture' may conflict with girls gaining education. The west has seen profound cultural change in the role of women in recent decades. Yaay! The tide is changing around the women albeit slowly. I have the pleasure of engaging with 1000s of academia and educated Muslim women from Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, South Africa, Turkey, Russia & beyond.

How embarrassing SingletonEngineer - Yes proofreading error after editing re stats. My apologies for the glitch. You so SO right!

Dear Old Man, I choose to live in the present. The past has gone and although there are lessons to be learnt from history, I look to give and receive unconditionally. Let's start with a 'fair go'

hello ttbn. Many thanx for your comments from previous post.Yes, I don't have the guts to express liberation in a 'walking tent.' I speak for myself... I want to engage, collaborate and be respected for being a human being so it wouldn't serve me to be totally concealed. Pleased you like the title. No threat intended just an impactful headline that worked to get attention.
I believe many social issues brewing unsolved over decades and politicians not helping eg dysfunctional families in society, drug & alcohol, lack of resources in education etc. The media have an agenda and Islamophobia latest craze. Education and dialogue key to living in harmony.
Posted by Najla, Friday, 25 August 2017 12:41:39 AM
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Wow Alan B - Remembering me as 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more', I feel I know you from a past life. I hear where you are coming from. I AGREE - Australia is a freedom loving country. Much work needs to be done to bridge the divide though. Hope we can unite to articulate the same message. BTW, most Muslim women's archetype is one of warrior queen not not owned property.

Veteran Armchair Critic, I bow and humbly welcome your comment. There is nothing wrong with "Go and get stuffed". It crosses everyone's mind if it doesn't pass their lips. You hit it on the head. We need to LEARN to live together. God knows families and friends find it hard to live together these days and we're looking to be a multicultural nation with 24M people trying to express individual views and ideas. What a mess we've got ourselves into.
I'm looking to learn and share with others. My late neighbours were legends. Two true veteran aussie critics sharing teachable stories. May Larry and Thelma rest in peace.

kactuz, adab and akhlaq are the two arabic words for 'manners' and 'morality'. Weekly sermons and religious lessons specifically cover behaviour, good character, respect etc. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) putting aside what many think of him was reknown for leadership qualities and a role model for social interaction, justice, kindness etc. I've not read the book but Prophet Muhammad was honored by US supreme court in 1935 as one of the greatest lawgivers of the world (taken from title).

Yuyutsu -you spoke too soon. Last week I saw a woman in a burqa riding a bike in the park. I bet she felt liberated.

Welcome to this post Foxy. "The majority of those who don the burqa are forced to do so by either cultural and familial expectations". Are you sure? I've spoken to many many woman AND they are adamant it's what they choose to wear. I don't know any man forced to grow his beard and can successfully convince others it's part of his identity?
Posted by Najla, Friday, 25 August 2017 12:46:37 AM
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P Hanson looks much better in the burqa and Parliament should have orders for her to wear it.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 25 August 2017 6:51:55 AM
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najia

History is full of women who proudly and publicly exhibit their masochism. In most societies, masochism in women is a badge of honour. Whatever the submissive requirement, women will dutifully oblige.

Whether it's burying their identity under a shroud, or exposing their naked or scantily clad bodies for public consumption, women will do whatever pleases. It all depends on how their emotional makeup combines with their culture.

I don't see any difference between women who choose to publicly cover their entire bodies and women who publicly expose their bodies. It's two sides of the one patriarchal coin.
Posted by Killarney, Friday, 25 August 2017 7:13:20 AM
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"What a mess we've got ourselves into."

I understand that it may be intended as an inclusive comment, but is it really? The problem is not wearing of a burka, a niquab or other intentional symbols, but the emotional and religious issues which are attached to displays of those symbols and which thus are entirely the responsibility of those who do so.

The first responses to that sentence were along the lines of "and who's got us here, we were OK, no need for additional public signs of division, then this - the bloody burka argument again, which is about as divisive as anything can be, a public expression of otherness, intended to be and very effective at demonstrating differences in religion, history and ethics, inextricably linked to physical and threats to property, to terrorism and to suppression of women's rights, another bridge which we are being asked to cross, another set of shonky opinions that we are being directed to agree with, more threats to our social institutions, which have more than sufficient issues to deal with already."

Pardon my stream of conflicted emotional non-acceptance of the challenges presented by the symbolism discussed here.

In the same category are intentional, silent, public public expression of challenge and threat as wearing of Ku Klux Klan hoods or sporting of racist slogans on tee-shirts. And so it is.

These symbolic displays are not acceptable or reasonable ways to build a sustainable, safe, inclusive Australia.

This article is not about conflict resolution, it is about bullying and oppression, by the wearer, of others.

The act of wearing a burka, whether in a public place or in the Senate, is no less offensive than openly carrying an assault rifle in a shopping mall. Both are incredibly confronting, they are acts of emotional assault on others. That act violates the rights of others to peaceful enjoyment of their community.

The soft words used by the author do not hide the underlying motivation. Change must come and that change must be initiated by those who currently advocate unnecessary, confronting and offensive behaviour.

It is impolite.
Posted by SingletonEngineer, Friday, 25 August 2017 9:16:41 AM
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Killarney is right about female compliance. And no man chooses to wear a neck tie and they choose to wear them.

A burqa is an assault like nuns are, service-women in camouflage military uniform at supermarkets and a bishop with mitre and crozier.
Boys in hoodies make me clutch my bankcard.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 25 August 2017 9:48:48 AM
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Personally I could not care what women wear on their head. Women getting around almost naked is more disrespectful and damaging. What I and many others object to is the idiotic regressive response to Hanson having an opinion that many share. She is entitled to express it without every Islamic apologist like Brandis and the ABC displaying their bigotry and denials.
Posted by runner, Friday, 25 August 2017 10:22:59 AM
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I wonder what Najla thinks of the British Labour party woman tweeting that Rotherham sex abuse victims to ‘shut their mouths for the good of diversity’. 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares-tweet-saying-abuse-victims-should-shut-their-mouths-for-good-of-diversity-6872181/
Posted by runner, Friday, 25 August 2017 10:44:28 AM
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Dear Najla,

Thank You for responding to our comments.

Full face veils are the most backward and
repressive examples of modesty culture forced
on women. And this is the comments that I
hear from many Muslim women. There are other
ways to express one's modesty in clothing
without having to resort in a full face veil.

They tell me that one may disagree with imposing
a ban on the burqa, but to defend or celebrate
the burqa is a betrayal of the women yearning to
be free of its oppression.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 25 August 2017 11:07:52 AM
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Latest poll: 57% of Australians support burka ban.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 25 August 2017 12:24:41 PM
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Najla, I asked for references from hadith or Quran that show good conduct, social interaction, justice and kindness by your prophet, and I get a silly unsubstantiated statement saying that he was “reknown for leadership qualities and a role model for social interaction, justice, kindness etc. “ Is the word “references” too difficult?

I have read the primary sources of Islam. Obviously you have not. Let me provide references:

Narrated Anas: Whenever Allah's Apostle attacked some people, he would never attack them till it was dawn. If he heard the Adhan (call for prayer) he would delay the fight, and if he did not hear the Adhan, he would attack them immediately after dawn (Bukhari Volume4, Book52, Number193)

Or you can do a Google search “expeditions of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)” Maybe these were to deliver flowers…

Don’t like the hadith? Lets try a verse from Allah’s perfect scripture, Quran 7:4 - How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them (Pickthall)

The ahadith tell some good stories about your prophet. Mohammad was obviously a smart person, skilled in warfare. However there are many more stories of brutal, sadistic attacks on peaceful people with looting, murder, enslavement of men, women and children, torture and rape. Remember, the ahadeeth were not written by Islam’s enemies, but by Muslims.
Posted by kactuz, Friday, 25 August 2017 3:34:16 PM
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Mohammed or Stalin? Hmmm No wonder the Greens/regressives and Isalm get on so well.
Posted by runner, Friday, 25 August 2017 3:41:30 PM
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The fact is, Najla, that your prophet did many vile, evil things. Worse, he is a “noble example” to Muslims. So killing is not bad, it is what Muslims do. Allah says Muslims are put on earth to kill and be killed (Q 9:111). How nice!

In the house used by the terrorists in Barcelona, the police found hundreds of books and pamphlets about Islam and the life of Mohammad. Unlike you, they knew Islam. Their families, friends and neighbors told reporters they were good kids, integrated, had jobs and so, except that one day they decided to slaughter men women an children on the street, because of Islam.

Do you ever ask why? Can you ask yourself what is it about your religion that makes hate, discrimination and violence so easy?

No, You just shrug, issue silly denials – and it happens again and again. Muslim have neither honesty nor shame.
Posted by kactuz, Friday, 25 August 2017 3:44:32 PM
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Dear Kactuz,

«The fact is, Najla, that your prophet did many vile, evil things.»

This is not a fact, this is an allegation.

Neither the Koran nor the Hadith were written by the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. All those vile stories attributed to him are plain libel, written about 160 years after his death.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 25 August 2017 5:00:36 PM
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This is not a fact, this is an allegation.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 25 August 2017 5:43:43 PM
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As a child I remember the nuns going bathing at a sheltered corner of the beach. They would arrive in a couple of buses and gather along the water like black soldier crabs. Then, just as dusk approached, one would realise that there were a few in the water, out of nowhere. Black, woollen outfits with long arms and legs. They must have worn something like shower caps. Shallow wading water, no movement. Or else they could have drowned.

As a kid I could only imagine how it must have gathered the coral sand and chafed. As Catholics they may have like the sandy er, lets make that toes.

Then they disappeared into their sheds, right on the beach and no running water.

It was a scream. Muslim women are carrying on that tradition. Must be a fright for the sea gulls. LOL
Posted by leoj, Friday, 25 August 2017 5:45:48 PM
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It was standard until about 100 years ago and after Federation."
like an old-fashioned nightgown (only always a dark colour) covering the body from neck to toes, while the lower part was weighted with shot to keep the skirt from floating and exposing the hidden limbs ... a girl able to swim was as rare as the dodo.

There was a tremendous hubbub when women began to adopt more fitting bathing costumes, and there was nearly a riot at Glenelg when the first woman appeared in tight-fitting shorts and vest.
Sea Bathing Sixty Years Ago , 1928."
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 25 August 2017 6:12:06 PM
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Yes, you couldn't blame women for wanting to shed the woollen outfits.
Posted by leoj, Friday, 25 August 2017 7:16:23 PM
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Onya Is Mise [on Thursday, 24 August 2017 1:33:01 PM]

IS future terrorists from all over Australia thankyou for your tip...
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 25 August 2017 7:31:25 PM
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My attitude to the wearing of a full face covering ,as opposed to a head scarf ...is logical and fair .

It is just like a Western girl prancing around in a Muslim country wearing a bikini . It is offensive and culturally inappropriate to wear the burqa in publlic in Australia .

To be so insensitive to the alarm it sends to especially elderly Australian females , is quite breathtaking . Although some Muslim women enjoy wearing the covering , many do not and it becomes a symbol of female oppressio
Posted by Ralph Bennett, Friday, 25 August 2017 9:38:56 PM
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plantagenet,

It's 'Bollard Control'.

So necessary where Australia could be importing a bollard culture. JWH, eat your heart out.

Next, tightening bollard control against those shudder, shudder, automatic assault bollards,

http://faac.com.au/products/traffic-bollards/

- Some are deadly black too.

. Screw or be screwed, bollard style....Wait a minute, could be getting mixed up with some
Posted by leoj, Friday, 25 August 2017 10:48:58 PM
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"Yes, you couldn't blame women for wanting to shed the woollen outfits."
Some women and men agreed with smaller costumes, some did not. Some Councils had beach inspectors to enforce larger costumes. I happened to be in the street where Twiggy started her walk in the first mini-skirt with tough bouncers for protection. A mini burqa may be trendy.
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 26 August 2017 7:01:25 AM
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nicknamenick,

You may be onto something there. While Muslim men 'frolic' in the surf in their shorts, looking for all the world like soon-to-be-beached whales, their famed choice-making women, 'Islam is the most feminist religion', could wear a mini. The "Niqabitches" model your fantasy,

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/10/04/121210.html

That fashion would require de-forestation below a horizontal at the camel toe, while preserving the Kakadu scrub of that area and above for the befuddlement of their men (for other women too, as some butch Aussie feminists may wish, a tilt towards 'Progressive').

Another option might be to sport just the new Chinese fashion accessory on the head only to hide the particular area of hair that so inflames Muslim men. Below the neck the hirsute inheritances could conceal what should not be seen by human eyes. May the Bollard Totems to Fundy Islam be praised! Now, your choice, in traditional matt black or burka blue?

http://www.news.com.au/world/the-facekini-a-new-craze-sweeping-china/news-story/e66a6494e068ce8f6b391ee1b4e9e08

Some music while Sir makes a choice for madam,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK7CVNyBALo
Posted by leoj, Saturday, 26 August 2017 10:43:22 AM
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Conservative Australian values are with P Hanson who will wear a mini skirt into Parliament , say it has no place there and rip it off. Even more shocking, her dress finished five inches above her knees. Following her appearance, the front page of The Sun newspaper raged: “There she was, the world’s highest-paid fashion model, snubbing the iron-clad conventions of fashionable Flemington with a dress five inches above the knee – NO hat, NO gloves and NO stockings!” Derby Day racegoers were horrified. To this day, many believe Shrimpton’s Melbourne Cup Carnival attendance to be Australia’s biggest fashion scandal and demand the burqa , hanging and the lash be brought back.

There was nothing utopian about traditional Aboriginal society, which was characterised ... White settlement brought to Australia all the advantages of one of the ...
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 26 August 2017 11:12:41 AM
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Isn't it great to make fun of customs, fashions,
and fads. From clothing to hairstyles to music.
However we now live in different times. Australia
like other Western nations far from the conflict
and instability of the Middle East, is being
forever changed by the spectre of terrorism.

Whether we like it or not, we are in a war against
the indiscriminate and cowardly evils of terrorism,
which is intent on hitting soft civilian targets.
Most recently police in Sydney say they uncovered
a plot to bring down a plane with explosives.

ASIO is aware of at least 100 Australians who joined
Islamic State in Iraq or Syria in the past year.
145 passports according to The Age have been cancelled,
26 have been suspended and 22 applications from people
assessed as seeking to join IS have been refused.

In terms of total population, or of the Muslim community
of 600,000, these numbers are small. But as we've seen
in Barcelona, London, Paris, or Sydney and Melbourne,
even a lone-wolf actor, or a small terrorist cell, can
wreak senseless and devastating tragedy.

Therefore calls for a ban on full face veils and full
body coverings make perfect sense.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 26 August 2017 12:09:00 PM
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"Burqa" and "bomb" have different spelling unless it's made of plastic-explosive cloth for Woolworths fresh food , that's why I choose Coles.
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 26 August 2017 6:14:08 PM
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Wearing the Burqa or wearing the swastika, same ideology
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 26 August 2017 7:19:36 PM
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plantagenet,

"Onya Is Mise [on Thursday, 24 August 2017 1:33:01 PM]

IS future terrorists from all over Australia thankyou for your tip"

Hardly, it's so darn obvious even the lame brain would be terrorists that we have so far had in Australia would see the obvious; as obvious as the trams and their right of way that go through the bollards (whatever) that have been put in Melbourne.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 26 August 2017 9:36:05 PM
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Do those bollards carry safety notices and do they progressively crush so no offender can possibly be harmed? Unlike the public, offenders have rights you know.

Bollard control should be tightened, that goes without saying. Ban the tactical-looking ones, no black with hand grips, no rails and absolutely none that can be locked and loaded into place. A national bollard registry? Costing millions and totally worthless? What a good idea. We care talking political decisiveness and strong mage, so money is no object.

What about police command? Are police commanders multiculturally sensitive and aware just how vulnerable those 'Allah's snack bar' yelling, impressionable, misguided young fellows are feeling and how it is definitely Oz society's fault?

Counsellors and Wa Wa Wambulances to be on constant stand-by.

Hey, so the public can wait for an ambulance, these are vulnerable and high priority, they are the real victims.

Good that is all fixed.

Now for the pollies, they shall have armed police protection right there next to them. Why? Because they can.
Posted by leoj, Sunday, 27 August 2017 1:55:21 AM
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China is producing 3billion airbags for trucks and vans front fenders. Smaller bags are fitted to pedestrian belts.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 27 August 2017 10:00:15 AM
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Hi All
I hear your frustration and anger however individuals under the burqa are innocent women.

You all have brilliant minds and every perspective is valued. Indeed there have been atrocities in the world past, present and no doubt well into the future. At what point do we navigate away from giving attention-seeking POWERplayers; politicians, media and jihadi terrorists the publicity and focus they crave.

Don't the majority of decent women, men, youth and children deserve to be left alone and be given a fair go to contribute to our sunburnt country?. Is it too ambitious to reach out asking community/society for support, tolerance, collaboration and harmony?
Black lives, white lives and the lives of all people, regardless of color, age, sexual orientation or creed matter.
I appreciate your comments however I must turn to other commitments. Heartfelt gratitude and appreciation for your input and views.
Posted by Najla, Sunday, 27 August 2017 1:49:33 PM
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As you asked 3 questions and turn away without hearing answers you won't read this so I'm not writing it to you.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 27 August 2017 2:08:16 PM
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Najla,

The Burqa is a sign of oppression which has no place in a free democratic country.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 27 August 2017 5:36:19 PM
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Official banning of Burqa is a sign of oppression which has no place in a free democratic country.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 27 August 2017 5:57:40 PM
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Why on earth would any normal woman want to
cover her full face and body when out in public?
It's not for religion so for what?

Supposed modesty?

This is the 21st century not the 7th.
And this is Australia not the Middle East.
So why come to a country like Australia if
you want to maintain customs of past centuries?

What nonsense!
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 27 August 2017 6:01:49 PM
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People who can play a bagpipe should go a long way.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 27 August 2017 6:29:45 PM
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Indeed they should.

As far away as possible!
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 27 August 2017 6:44:34 PM
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What I want to hear is that ALL girls can attend school on an equal basis to boys. That they are being supported in wearing the school uniform and making the most of their school years. NOT being limited in any way by claimed 'modesty', gender difference that negatively stereotypes and restricts girls, based on 'cultural' or 'religious' edict.
Posted by leoj, Sunday, 27 August 2017 7:14:15 PM
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Dear Foxy,

«So why come to a country like Australia if you want to maintain customs of past centuries?»

Perhaps because the climate is better.
Perhaps because there are no wars here.
Perhaps because there are no serious earthquakes.
Perhaps because you have family and/or friends here.

I know real examples for all the above 4 reasons, but of course there could be many more.

.. Perhaps because one just loves kangaroos and koalas?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 27 August 2017 7:18:30 PM
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Well. I love kangaroos, great meat almost fat-free and tasty as well.

Koala, I haven't tried but many years ago a mate, a full tribal man,
told me that it was lousy tucker but probably good for a cold.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 27 August 2017 7:48:51 PM
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I see that a local poll on the subject found 56% in favour of banning the Burqa and only 12% not which is a result far stronger than for SSM.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 28 August 2017 9:12:08 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for giving us all those reasons as to why
people come to this country. There's even more I'm
sure than the ones you've listed. Outside of
Australia's Indigenous people, we are all immigrants
or descendants of immigrants - some earlier than others
but all with an experience of immigration during the
foundation of modern Australia.

Australia's immigration experience is also a broad one.
Originally it was Anglo-Celtic, but after the war our
immigrants came from elsewhere and today Australia is
often described as a successful diverse society.

The political and cultural institutions that govern
Australia are absolutely critical to an attitude of
harmony and tolerance. Within an institutional framework
that preserves tolerance and protects order we can
celebrate and enjoy diversity in food, in music, in
religion, in language and in culture. But we could not
do that without the framework which guarantees the
freedom to enjoy diversity.

Therefore we have a right to question certain sections
of our community that wish to prevent some of its own
members from fully participating in their communities.
The burqa should be questioned and its limitations
discussed. As should any cultural customs that prevent
cohesion or are not acceptable to Modern Australia
such as FGM (female genital mutilation) or child-brides.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:32:08 AM
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Foxy

Mahommed ( peace be upon him) and his Bagpipe and Burqa Unit drove pagans out of Mecca as far as Pakistan.

The Oxford History of Music says that a sculpture of bagpipes has been found on a Hittite slab at Euyuk in the Middle East, dated to 1000 BC. The world’s largest manufacturer of traditional bagpipes, outside of Scotland, lies in Pakistan, in the industrial city of Sialkot. ANZAC DAY 2013, Walking with the Bagpipes in Sydney - YouTube.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:49:26 AM
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Dear Foxy,

«The political and cultural institutions that govern Australia are absolutely critical to an attitude of harmony and tolerance.»

I challenge this statement, which is in fact twofold:

One, that as a result of these governing institutions we now have an attitude of harmony and tolerance: a glance at the comments here, as well as at that poll that shows 56% in favour of banning the Burqa, indicate that this is not the case.

But more importantly is the second claim, that these institutions are the ONLY way to achieve an attitude of harmony and tolerance. While I'm wholly in favour of harmony and tolerance, I believe that they are better achieved in non-coercive ways.

«Within an institutional framework that preserves tolerance and protects order»

"Preserving tolerance" and "Protecting order" are two, completely different issues. Why bundle them together?

Regarding the latter, creating an order in order to protect an order... loses sight of what we really want to protect: real, actual, live people and their freedoms, rather than some artificially-created mechanisms.

«we can celebrate and enjoy diversity in food, in music, in religion, in language and in culture.»

This paternalistic statement suggests that otherwise we couldn't.

«But we could not do that without the framework which guarantees the freedom to enjoy diversity.»

This hinges on the words "the" and "guarantees". Your claim is as-if this specific framework is the ONLY one where we could enjoy freedom and diversity; and as for guarantees, none exist in real life.

«Therefore we have a right to question certain sections of our community that wish to prevent some of its own members from fully participating in their communities.»

Why "Therefore"? This is a new statement which doesn't follow from previous statements.

The baseless and dangerous assumption here, is as if everyone who happens to live in this continent must want to belong to your particular community.

«The burqa should be questioned and its limitations discussed. As should any cultural customs that prevent cohesion»

So why ramble about freedom? What you actually want is cohesion: the two are incompatible, you can't have both!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 28 August 2017 2:06:55 PM
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Bagpipes are worn around the ears and prevent conversation. The kilt is a complete bum-cover and oppresses manhood in cold weather.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 28 August 2017 2:26:50 PM
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Yuyutsu, you say that Mohammad's vile action are not a fact, but an allegation. Maybe yes, maybe no, but all Islam's "sacred" writings say that he did many, many very evil things. These are the same writings that Najla uses to tell us that Mohammad was a wonderful, kind man, except that she can't find any references to those wonderful, kind deeds. She did not even comment on the few (of many) quotes about his attacks on peaceful neighbors.

Is it too much to ask Muslims to be honest about what their own histories say? If the lie about the basics, why should anybody believe them when they talk peace and tolerance.

In other words, what this woman is saying in her response, by omission, is that anything Mohammad did is beyond question. Also, while she would no doubt condemn any of us (nonMuslims) for murder, rape, torture, she does not apply these standards to all, thus murder, rape, torture, etc are not really wrong, it just depends on who is doing them. This is standard Islamic dogma. Under Islam, one cannot question anything, except maybe silly practices. The great moral issues are not up for discussion in Islam. Note that even the so-called 5 pillars of Islam have no moral content. It is just "do this, do that" and and you are a good Muslim. None of that silly "Thou shalt not kill" for Muslims, much to the contrary.

This is the culture, these are the moral standards that Muslims bring with them. Then when so-called normal people go out and kill in the name of Allah and Mohammad, Muslims pretend it has nothing to do with them.

The burqa is no different from a swastika or a white robe with a pointed hood. It is a symbol of oppression, hate and violence.
Posted by kactuz, Monday, 28 August 2017 3:36:31 PM
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Nijla writes again using words like "support, tolerance, collaboration and harmony".

Where exactly in the Islamic world is there support, tolerance, collaboration and harmony for Non-Muslims?

Muslims want for themselves what they deny to others, always.

As I have said here at OLO year after year after year, we will pay for Muslim immigration in blood. These people will cause untold problems that we cannot even imagine. When one of her co-religionists attacks a school or church, killing dozens of people including children, Nijla will get out the standard form letter that Muslims use in these occasions, filling in the blanks with date and location, saying she condemns this outrage and that it has nothing to do with the true islam. It will happen; it has happened.

Remember, her dear prophet said "I am made victorious with terror".. What could go wrong? Oh yes, Nijla, do you want a reference for that quote?
Posted by kactuz, Monday, 28 August 2017 3:51:06 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I cannot argue with your logic.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 28 August 2017 6:27:37 PM
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Foxy,

"Australia's immigration experience is also a broad one.
Originally it was Anglo-Celtic,"

Can't let that one through, look up the nationalities on the First Fleet.

And later, "Many Greeks did not return home as originally planned and found other work in the food industry and as merchants once the gold rush subsided. By the turn of the century a remarkable community of Greeks in Australia began to take form as citizens from Greece, mostly relatives of the Greeks already established in Australia as well as townspeople came to join the settlers. The community flourished as the Greek Orthodox Community of Melbourne and Victoria was founded in 1897 and in 1901, respectively, following the creation of the Greek Orthodox Church in Melbourne. Shortly after which Australis, the first Greek language weekly newspaper went into print in 1913."
http://au.greekreporter.com/2016/05/27/how-greeks-came-to-immigrate-to-australia/
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 28 August 2017 6:49:39 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

Throughout the 19th century, people of various
races migrated to Australia. They mainly came
from Britain, Ireland, India, China, Pacific
Islands (Kanakas), Japan, Germany, Scandinavia,
and North America. Gradually, public opposition
grew to the use of coloured labour. Australians
feared that non-whites were prepared to accept
lower wages and this would lower living standards.
Several confrontations occurred: Indian coolies (1841),
the Chinese on the goldfields of NSW and Victoria (1850s).
Queensland goldfields (1870s), Kanaka labour on the
Queensland sugar plantations (1880s and 1890s).
The focus of the Australian opposition was on the
Chinese, but all Asians and coloured people were included
in the campaigns to keep Australia "white and British".
Antagonism therefore was not only economic but also
social and racial.

Finally the Australian Federal Government decided to be
more selective in its migrant intakes. The White Australia
policy was introduced in 1901, in the form of the
Immigration Restriction Bill. Non-whites were to be excluded
from settling in Australia. Racial purity and protection of
living standards had to be insured. In this context, the
"white" of White Australia was to mean primarily Anglo-Saxon.
The White Australia policy remained in force for 65 years.
The exclusion of non-Europeans was later strengthened by
other acts of parliament and by the notorious dictation
test, originally imported from Natal.

Until the middle of the 20th century, the majority of
Australian immigrants came from the United Kingdom. At the
time of Federation (in 1901), for example, 77% of the
population had been born in Australia and 18% in the UK.
By 1947, the Australian population was still predominantly
of British origin, with 90% Australian-born and 7% born in
the British Isles. However, the proportion of British
immigrants among the total arrivals from overseas kept
decreasing 98% in 1922, 97% in 1938, and only 51% in 1949,
19.9% in 1986-87, and 12.2% in 1996-97.

I won't go into any further details. If you need more information
on the topic you can get hold of the book:

Day, D (2001), Chifley. Sydney: Harper Collins.

There's also many others on the topic.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 10:28:19 AM
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"The burqa should be questioned and its limitations discussed. "
Some Muslims have decided the burqa is not for them. It's a matter for them to question isn't it? Are they adults ? Would it be better if they all had skin surgery for the brown tint and joined a church approved by local police?
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 5:20:48 PM
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Nick,

Poor Michael Jackson tried tinting his skin and
look how that turned out. So it's not something
that is highly recommended as a thing to do. Besides,
the botched look is so yesterday. Instead,
there is the latest fad of having your skin darkened.
So, if you're white - you could try that. Fake-spray
tanning is so "in" nowadays among certain sectors of
the community. Try it and see how you go.

As for Muslims joining a church which the police approve
of? Well in this country you don't need police
approval.

But if it's directions that you're after?
There are quite a few Muslims in the police
force. I'm sure that they could direct you to the
nearest location that you're after.

I trust that this clarifies things for you.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 11:24:23 AM
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