mikk you are the most ignorant and deceitful person here if we go by your post history. Oh how clever are you JKJ.
Never once have you offered anything more than insults and platitudes. Liar.
You have never explained your beliefs. Liar. If you cant discern my beliefs from just todays posts then you are an idiot.
You have never engaged in debate. Liar. The proof is in black and white in this very thread.
You have never shown you understand Islam, the State, anything. Says who? Why? The posts I replied to were attacking muslims. My posts were attacking christians. Why do I have to understand islam? I didnt say anything about Islam. Just because I attacked xianity does not mean I am defending islam you fool.
I understand the state all too well and if you havent noticed agree with a lot of your anti state arguments. I just apply them to capitalism and the church as well. Unlike you.
What exactly are you mikk. I am an anarchist athiest logical person. Unlike you. You right wing objectivist elitist scumbag.
Im leaning towards troll. Yeah unlike you and the runner who just spout BS and dont even bother to you have any sort of coherent argument.The very definition of troll

Hi Killarney,

You suggest that: "If the West had left Islamic countries alone, then they would have gone through their own 'Enlightenment' and progressed into the modern world."

My jaw dropped at that: apart from the Crusaders' attempt to win back Christian countries and regions which had been invaded by the Muslims, the 'West' didn't really have any power except to 'leave Islamic countries alone' (I'm presuming you mean the various Muslim empires ? The Moors, Mongols, Tamurlaine, the Seljuks, Ottomans, et al. who had a pretty free hand for a thousand years - from the mythical time of Muhammad until, say, the siege of Vienna in 1689).

A thousand years to freely develop their own 'Enlightenment': how did that go ? At first, piggy-backing on the combined knowledge of the Byzantines and the invaded Jews and Christians across their empire, yes, there may have been a flowering of ideas. But after that ? Say from 1000 to 1850 ? Eight hundred and fifty years of relative non-interference to develop their own 'Enlightenment' ? And the results ? The dead hand of absolutism, backwardness (the first printing press in the Muslim world was set up in 1824, nearly four hundred years after Gutenberg) and a petrified religion, petrifying human thought.

To their defence, one could suggest that, if it weren't for Islam, yes, there may have been steps towards enlightenment principles, of equality, equal representation, the (relatively) impartial rule of law, promotion of women's rights, etc.

The Muslim world has thus lived a ghastly tragedy for nearly fourteen hundred years, and the ghastly value system that it excretes even today, Shari'a law, must at all costs never be allowed to ever be recognised in Australia.

Cheers,

Joe

Anybody who has positive valid reason to want to live here in the best country in the world, and that just has to be most people; and have something/anything worthwhile to contribute or add?

And if they're able to peacefully cohabitate, without trying to change us to where they came from, they should be just as welcome as the sons and daughters of the Muslim Afghan camels drivers who came here to help lay the overland telegraph.

And their also Muslim descendants unrecognisable from any other ocker Aussie.

And could just as easily be the bloke you shared a beer with after the footy, or the lady manning the tuckshop at the local school, or handing out the snags at the communal charity raising event.

And just as concerned as any fair dinkum Aussie about where we are headed and the plight of the persecuted, in her or his homeland or anywhere.

Accentuating our six degrees of difference solves nothing, while striving for understanding and commonality will. And not doable by closing your mind, eyes and ears! Or claiming to know the mind of God, and by implication, unable to err!

Historical records report that Islam wasn't successfully spread by warriors branding swords, through most of Asia, but by peace loving Sofies and by example.

Even so, there is no one true God, just the one God, Creator or creative force, given various names Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Omm and then only because many different people have different languages.

And if any truly believe in God, and claim to understand his/her purpose, it can't be reflected in satanic barbarous war or allowing mindless satanic greed to destroy our common homeworld!
Alan B.

Dan, our problem is the same as Europes, it is just not as severe.
There is a policy applied by UK moslems in Birmingham called Trojan Horse.
What we see in Punchbowl is very similar although they were too late
acting on it in the UK and it had spread to a number of schools.
What we saw yesterday at the school is the same as happened in the UK.
Just in case it was not covered where you live, the new headmaster
was bailed up by two men and threatened that they would "get him !".
He made a big mistake, he said he would not report it to the police.

No doubt some would be moving away from the mosque, I nearly wrote church !
They are told that apostates are the worst of people and to avoid them.
The result is they can be cut off from the rest of their friends and indeed relatives.
Of course that depends on the attitude of their friends.

Islams blames the west for the condition of the Middle East but the
crusades and more recent intrusions into the area were because of the
way they have been treating other peoples and countries.

I am afraid that until they stop the practise of marrying cousins it
will not get any better. What is remarkable is that horse & camel
breeders thought that Allah made a special exception for humans
or was it just moslems ?
It is the cruelist thing they can do to their children.

Bazz..
Really, does anybody give a toss what Muslims do behind closed doors?
After all, isn't the West Equally psychotic in their obsession with homosexuals marrying each other. Ask a Muslim what he thinks of that madness Bazz!
Be ready for an expletive laden answer!

Muslims live in a tightly closed world. That's not bad Bazz, that is actually good!
Do you care a Muslim student will not shake hands with a female teacher in a passing out parade?
Damn sure I don't.
But I'll warn you, get ready for more Muslims not less, Indonesia stands ready to flood the place with Turnbull's assistance!

Hi Dan,

But that might be precisely the reason that the Australian government, and Australians generally, have to resist any move towards the introduction of Shari'a law - for ANY Australians including Muslim Australians - now, and forever.

The point about not shaking hands with a woman is supposed to be because they are unclean, 'haram', to any strange male. Of course, the point about Australians shaking hands is that it's an expression of equality. Long may it continue to be so.

Joe