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The Forum > Article Comments > Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science > Comments

Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science : Comments

By John Nicol and Jennifer Marohasy, published 16/9/2016

At high altitudes, the greenhouse gases provide the only mechanism for the radiation of heat from the atmosphere to space.

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“Fishing restrictions have failed to prevent reaching historically low level populations. “

That sentence blindly assumes that today's politicians have delivered the fishing restrictions that the scientists have been asking for, but that is clearly wrong.
http://www.worldwildlife.org/threats/overfishing

You appear to want to discount overfishing and blame everything climate and ocean related on one critter, algae. Problem is, high algae areas appear to be in *far* less than 1% of the earth's oceans.
Now demonstrate how that tiny fraction change in albedo, or increase in plankton activity, can in any way generate an extra 4 Hiroshima bombs per second!
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/GlobalMaps/view.php?d1=MYD28M&d2=MY1DMM_CHLORA

Yet in the same post you admit: “However oceans will not fill with algae because algae requires sunlight for photosynthesis in upper surface waters. Reality is suitable nutrients have to be present in the first place.” So on the one hand, algae is responsible for global warming and global oceanic ecosystem collapse, ignoring the *known* phenomenon of CO2 and greenhouse gases, overfishing, and incredible build up of toxic plastic bags and micro-plastic, yet on the other hand you admit the oceans don't really support high levels of algae. Confused much?

As for 4 Hiroshima bombs per second:

“We know CO2 absorbs and re-emits longwave radiation (Tyndall). The theory of greenhouse gases predicts that if we increase the proportion of greenhouse gases, more warming will occur (Arrhenius).

Scientists have measured the influence of CO2 on both incoming solar energy and outgoing long-wave radiation. Less longwave radiation is escaping to space at the specific wavelengths of greenhouse gases. Increased longwave radiation is measured at the surface of the Earth at the same wavelengths.

These data provide empirical evidence for the predicted effect of CO2.”

https://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-co2-enhanced-greenhouse-effect.htm

And then this:
“The Hiroshima atomic bomb yielded an explosive energy of 6.3x1013 Joules. Since 1998, our climate has already absorbed more than 2 billion such bombs (4.0 every second) in accumulated energy from the sun, due to greenhouse gases, and continues to absorb more energy as heat each and every day. For more information, visit http://sks.to/heat. “
Posted by Max Green, Saturday, 8 October 2016 1:10:29 PM
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Yes, fishing restrictions have failed to prevent reaching historically low level populations.

Politicians and scientists have been very wrong, for example it is against the law to take small fish and legal to take the big adult mature breeding age fish. LOL. LOL LOL. Truly.

Then there are the 200 nautical mile limits that do nothing to stop migratory fish swimming outside the limit and being caught somewhere else.

Then there are fishing restrictions that cannot be policed because of not enough money for effective policing.

United Nations focus and agenda has to be questioned in more ways than one, absolutely.

And some people actually believe the WWF that has been on watch while all this devastation has been happening and become critical.
Australia now imports over 70% of it's fish product including to feed aquaculture.

Just on news yesterday the BBC told of not enough small fish to feed salmon and so omega oil production has halved and is expected to decrease further.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37321656

Truth is the world ocean environment can no longer support enough fish to bring about fish population recovery.
Major media has reality dumbed down.

Truth is anchovy are seagrass dependent and seagrass nurseries and anchovy populations are devastated worldwide due to nutrient pollution proliferating epiphyte growth.
Right at this very moment I am based 100m from where it is happening right now. I live and work in ocean ecosystems.
Google; epiphyte. Learn about different algae that is destroying ocean food web nursery ecosystems.

Truth is that foreign nations fishing and devastating anchovy and other small fish populations of other nations even led to start of piracy off Somalia and the lawlessness that followed.

Algae is not just about toxic algae blooms and news spin supposed to scare people into watching adverts or buying 'news' papers.
Nobody can deny cloud can be seen forming into pinpoints above algae inundated waters.

I have not said algae is responsible for global warming. What I have said is that algae is warming areas of ocean and lakes, not worldwide at the same time.
Posted by JF Aus, Saturday, 8 October 2016 3:13:54 PM
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"I have not said algae is responsible for global warming. What I have said is that algae is warming areas of ocean and lakes, not worldwide at the same time."

Well, I don't even know if THAT could happen and would need to see peer-reviewed science that discusses the actual algae involved actually doing what you propose: not what you transpose from garden composts or artificial sewerage systems running at much higher temperatures than most natural bodies of water on this planet!

If this is not about global warming, why do you suddenly start rocking on your chair and repeating, "Algae cause warming, algae cause warming, algae cause warming," like Rainman wanting 12 Cheetos every single time there's a climate discussion? Huh? ;-) We're watching what you actually DO, not just what you claim.

The majority of the damage to our oceans comes from overfishing, then probably ocean acidification from burning too many fossil fuels, which thins the shells of calcium critters. Climate change will soon catch up with our ocean fishing, as previous Extinction Level Events have lead to anoxic oceans.

"Anoxic events coincided with several mass extinctions and may have contributed to them.[3] These mass extinctions include some that geobiologists use as time markers in biostratigraphic dating.[4] Many geologists believe oceanic anoxic events are strongly linked to slowing of ocean circulation, climatic warming, and elevated levels of greenhouse gases. Researchers have proposed enhanced volcanism (the release of CO2) as the "central external trigger for euxinia".[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

These involved GARGANTUAN algal blooms, but they're the RESULT of climate change and oceanic circulation cutting out, not the cause.
Posted by Max Green, Saturday, 8 October 2016 3:48:44 PM
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Here is just one question for Max Green to answer, and watch the way he answers.

Q.
What peer-reviewed scientific evidence do you have Max Green, to prove as you say, "The majority of the damage to our oceans comes from overfishing".
Posted by JF Aus, Saturday, 8 October 2016 6:35:25 PM
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People can Google Scholar overfishing and depleted oceans, because I'm not playing that game until you address just ONE of my posts like an adult and actually look for the evidence required to support your claims!

But in the meantime, I repeat:

You appear to want to discount overfishing and blame all climate and ocean ecosystem problems on algae. Problem is, high algae areas appear to be in *far* less than 1% of the earth's oceans. Now demonstrate how that tiny fraction change in albedo, or increase in plankton activity, can in any way generate an extra 4 Hiroshima bombs per second!
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/GlobalMaps/view.php?d1=MYD28M&d2=MY1DMM_CHLORA

Does this help with 4 Hiroshima bombs? It's the conclusion of the peer-reviewed science, and comes from devices they can show you in a physics lab if you bothered to google them.

As for 4 Hiroshima bombs per second:

Instruments tell us what CO2 does and by how much it does it.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-co2-enhanced-greenhouse-effect.htm

"The earth has warmed rapidly over the past century due mainly to human activity, and especially over the past few decades. The increased greenhouse effect has warmed the land and air and melted ice, but most of it (about 90%) has gone into heating the oceans. Several Skeptical Science contributors worked together to publish a scientific paper1 which combined the land, air, ice, and ocean warming data. It found that for recent decades the earth has been heating at a rate of 250 trillion Joules per second.

“Joules per second” is a difficult unit of measure to appreciate, and is especially foreign to people who are unfamiliar with science. This widget attempts to put that heating into terms that are easier to visualize. 250 trillion Joules per second is equivalent to:

Detonating four Hiroshima atomic bombs per second
Experiencing two Hurricane Sandys per second
Enduring four 6.0 Richter scale earthquakes per second
Being struck by 500,000 lightning bolts per second
Exploding more than eight Big Ben towers, with every inch packed full of dynamite, per second"
http://4hiroshimas.com/#Science
Posted by Max Green, Saturday, 8 October 2016 7:52:31 PM
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US military assessment of climate change:

Quote, last paragraphs:

"The next president will have a choice to make. One option is to continue down the path that the Obama administration has defined and develop policies, budgets, plans and programs that flesh out the institutional framework now in place. Alternatively, he or she can call climate change a hoax manufactured by foreign governments and ignore the flashing red lights of increasing risk.

The world’s ice caps will not care who is elected or what is said. They will simply continue to melt, as dictated by laws of physics. But Americans will care deeply about our policy response. Our nation’s security is at stake."

From:

https://theconversation.com/a-military-view-on-climate-change-its-eroding-our-national-security-and-we-should-prepare-for-it-65535

Analogy:

If a person placed $16,700 into a bank account in 1979 and found that in 2016 their deposit was $4,400, they would be very disappointed if no withdrawals had occurred. Bank charges being the cause of over $12,000 being lost.

Sea ice volume in the Arctic Ocean was 16,700 km3 in 1979, while in 2016 the provisional volume of sea ice was 4,000 km3 rounded up. From year to year there are variations; but a loss of around 12,000 km3 is significantoing down, the trend line has been continually going down.
Posted by ant, Sunday, 9 October 2016 9:03:59 AM
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