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The Forum > Article Comments > Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science > Comments

Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science : Comments

By John Nicol and Jennifer Marohasy, published 16/9/2016

At high altitudes, the greenhouse gases provide the only mechanism for the radiation of heat from the atmosphere to space.

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Siliggy,

The second paragraph at the following link states, quote, “ It turns out that oceans and atmosphere can have a big influence on a planet's temperature...” (end quote).
Turns out? When did it turn out?
http://scied.ucar.edu/planetary-energy-balance-temperature-calculate

It seems the boffins are presently out doing the science to find out how oceans actually impact climate.

Science will surely have to find how and why pinpoints of cloud form above algae and if that formation is linked to “cloud streets”.
And science has much to learn about ocean and waterway algae and albedo.

Surely science is going to have to establish whether or not anthropogenic increase in algae produces increase in cloud and shade and cooling and more intense storms linked to change in regional climate.

I think science will find increased solid matter in oceans retains some solar heat into hours of night, including algae storing warmth to some degree for 4 or 5 hours after sundown, similar to how a hot water bottle retains warmth in a bed.

I would love to be a fly on their wall watching the faces of scientists the moment they realize the importance of simple single celled algae in relation to weather and climate.

As for your mention of “the blob” of warmer water and Fukushima, there is no connection I can see. However micro particles of cesium in seafood and Sushi seaweed wrapping is a concern.
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 18 October 2016 4:47:14 PM
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For the record, 3 days ago I bought a Digitec digital multimeter with a temperature probe. About $50 at Jaycar.

Yesterday about 2 pm I touched the probe in plain water at the surface of a pond with various algae.
Within the same 300 sq mm area I then touched a hairy-type of algae about 100mm under the surface and the temperature increased about half of one degree higher than the plain water temperature.
I then rechecked the plain water temp and it was the same as before I probed the hairy algae.
I then probed the centre of macro algae plants and the temperature increased about one and one half of a degree above the plain water temperature.

I did the same casual tests today with similar/same result.

Anyone who thinks there is no warmth in wet plant matter best buy a meter and do some probing, literally, into devastation of oceans and weather ecosystems of this planet where we live.

Think what a whole sea of algae plant matter might do to water and air temperature and weather and climate, in or near a region where algae is now more prolific than is natural.

And get proper solutions happening, surely.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100305-baltic-sea-algae-dead-zones-water/
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 20 October 2016 8:11:48 PM
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J F Aus
"Roberts made the point in his maiden speech that from the 1930's to the 1970's - during the period of the greatest industrialisation in human history when our carbon dioxide output increased greatly – atmospheric temperatures actually cooled for forty years straight."
Plankton theory needs to account for periods that cool or be relegated to a small effect in a big machine.
Max Greens link rather than showing that the different albedo back radiation meets at the surface has been accounted seems to show it has not.
His mention and yours of the iron fertilisation and blob experiment are food for thought. The main man responsible for that, Russ George has a lot of interesting information here. http://russgeorge.net
There is another possible fertilisation source for at least the 2014 and later blob.
http://www.space.com/20740-comet-ison-will-pepper-the-earth-with-dust-video.html
"Estimates vary of how much cosmic dust and meteorites enter Earth’s atmosphere each day, but range anywhere from 5 to 300 metric tons,"
http://www.universetoday.com/94392/getting-a-handle-on-how-much-cosmic-dust-hits-earth/
The amount and content of space dust obviously varies a lot but is far far more than 11 guys in a fishing boat can deliver in a quick experiment.
Posted by Siliggy, Sunday, 23 October 2016 4:17:10 AM
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JF Aus
Your measurements so far DO seem to show surface warmth but are a very small sample. I wonder how hard it is to measure under the warm bit and compare to the same depths under clear water?
It would be good to also record nearby official temps , humidity, wind etc from BOM sites and the time of day and cloudines etc if you intend to do this for a while.
You are measuring only temperature but not volume of heat. One hot brick from a fire contains one tenth the heat of ten hot bricks. One small patch of algae may contain less heat than the same volume of water because water holds more volume of heat in the same space. The volume of heat a material contains varies by material type. Water holds a lot more in the same space than most other materials. This does not mean that the algae cannot heat the air and water around it if it absorbs more heat from the sun. If the albedo is lower it may do.
These may interest you.
http://neo.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/view.php?datasetId=MY1DMM_CHLORA
http://www.thegwpf.org/matt-ridley-global-warming-versus-global-greening/
http://phys.org/news/2016-10-year-tracks-effects-ocean-temperature.html#nRlv
Posted by Siliggy, Sunday, 23 October 2016 4:59:38 AM
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Siliggy,

Cooling:
NASA images show algae linked to increase in cloud.
I experience increase in cloud causing shade that attracts me to stay in the Solomon Islands equatorial region during mid-summer in order to experience the cool instead of being under intense sunshine and heat including during winter.

Evidence of substance indicates algae warming some areas of ocean, leading to more cloud and cooling and associated cold wind coming in contact with warm atmosphere rising off warm algae inundated water and leading to formation of ice clouds and snow storms.

There is a “cold blob” in the northern Atlantic Ocean, a cold area that I think is linked to unusually intense and longer lasting cloud and regional cooling. Warming sometimes occurs later depending on winds. I further understand those winds.

I think Malcolm Roberts and Jennifer Marohasy are on the right track. It is a track that leads to need for precise and correct measurement of wind and water temperature in order to find truth of change in climate or not. That track - road map led me to comment within this thread.

Albedo:
I feel sure that is AGW Kyoto associated science has not measured and assessed biological and residual solar warmth in ocean and lake algae plant matter on this planet, then albedo linked to nutrient pollution proliferated algae mass has not been measured and assessed either.

Ocean fertilization:
It is the total nutrient loading that is the key to fertilization or nutrient overload/pollution.
I consider from that link that Russ George and I have similar experience and understanding.
However I consider it is the continuous daily dumping of the sewage nutrient load from over 7.3 billion people, feeding algae in ocean coast ecosystem waters, that is the fundamental problem.

Meteorite dust occurs occasional, not daily. It is daily over-fertilization that can lead to pollution.
I think meteor dust would be deposited over a vast area.
Dust sinks and becomes sediment.

Nutrient bonded to fresh water within fresher surface-tending water currents driven by wind, is often transported long distances and can accumulate.

(Next reply later
Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 23 October 2016 9:09:03 AM
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Siliggy,

Measurement:
I appreciate your view my measurements do seem to show surface warmth from a very small sample.
What does it take to sample gravity, should I use a pin or a tonne of steel?

I will be able to measure under the algae but I think I will get more noticeable readings on a sunny day, noise of steel instead of from a single pin. LOL
I will also measure at night because I expect solar heat retained in algae matter.

Heat retained in water is one thing, compared to heat retained say on the side of a sunlit timber (vegetable matter) house.
But with ocean and lake water we are looking at algae vegetable matter entirely saturated with water.

Furthermore it’s micro particle plant matter in such enormous mass that is visible from satellites.
Micro algae is also the green that can be seen in some surf waves and waters visible in coastal tv news. The total mass worldwide is obviously enormous.

I do not understand albedo to the extent you do, Siliggy, so you would have to be author of a paper on algae-linked albedo.
My earlier suggestion was for you (et al) to do a paper adding the combined various sources of heat linked to ocean and lake algae, photosynthesis residual, heat absorbed in matter, biological heat, and your algae - albedo.

It’s all the heat combined that needs to be measured and assessed in genuine climate science.

Re your links:
First ,link: From my point of view the first link raises many more questions than it answers.

Second link., “…..approves the deletion of inconvenient data”, and the “Paris climate jamboree”.
Who is paying to fertilize the central green belt of Africa, to make it greener? LOL
“Media prepared to bully” any “academic or journalist who steps out of line”. That is outrageous.
Then this:
Scientists …….. “dare not say so openly”.

That’s Royal Commission material.

Phytoplankton gets slight mention but not significantly in view of reality it’s plankton that generates well over 50% of world oxygen.
Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 23 October 2016 8:36:02 PM
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