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The Forum > Article Comments > United Nations must end Hamas and PLO stranglehold on power > Comments

United Nations must end Hamas and PLO stranglehold on power : Comments

By David Singer, published 13/9/2016

The United Nations has allowed the conflict between Hamas and the PLO to career out of control for the last 10 years.

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The United Nations couldn't stop a pig in a passage.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 September 2016 10:17:16 AM
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David Singer MUST stop deciding (thou shalt not) how much real power the UN has and how they deploy it! Particularly when other players ignore their findings?

Say, like Jewish squatters building ILLEGAL settlements on annexed Palestinian land with the unambiguous approval and ratification of the Israeli parliament?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Tuesday, 13 September 2016 4:24:32 PM
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#Alan B

1. Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) is not illegal - being legally authorised by article 6 of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the UN Charter.

2. Jewish settlement is not taking place on "annexed Palestinian land " but within Area "C" of Judea and Samaria over which Israel has sole administrative and security control under the Oslo Accords as agreed with the PLO.

Please check your facts before rushing in to comment.

You appear to be another unwitting victim of Arab propaganda.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 13 September 2016 6:55:16 PM
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Given how so many in IPA circles rail against 'political correctness' then this comment could running for Comment of the Year.

It is no surprise the day after 'The Settlements' is published up pops the Hasbara response by Singer. Could have knocked me down with a feather. :)

If only those blasted Palestinians and the UN would just get their undemocratic acts together!

My comment in the other article went: "I saw that one day there would be one nation state upon the land of Palestine. A real functional democracy based upon a true Constitution under Law Equal rights for all citizens and it's name would not be Israel."
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18512&page=2

That being said, I have a few refs to share about Hasbara activists:

"Hasbara targets political elites, opinion makers and the public simultaneously; The Israeli government encourages all citizens to actively engage in Hasbara."
http://972mag.com/hasbara-why-does-the-world-fail-to-understand-us/27551

Jonathon Blakeley: A guide to Hasbara trolls
"...the vile and destructive impact of Sayanim and Hasbara agents on the social networks."
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

Make ‘hasbara’ a household word
The activity is concerted, organized, and subsidized; and the organized component is partly concealed. Anyone who’s seen the regular shift changes in commenters at this site knows what I’m talking about."
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/hasbara-household-word/

http://electronicintifada.net/tags/hasbara

For some editorial balance - Hasbara Fellowships
http://www.israelactivism.com

HAARETZ: "It’s self-deception, of course, and it’s also part of the campaign of propaganda and lies. It just won’t work."
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.659480

HAARETZ: "The only problem is that for all the money spent by the State of Israel and Jewish philanthropists on the hasbara industry [..] - none of it has ever worked."
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-is-more-focused-on-hasbara-than-it-is-on-policy-1.415977

Daniel Berrigan’s 1973 prophecy: Israel is becoming ‘the tomb of the Jewish soul’

We publish that speech in full below because so many of the points that Berrigan made 43 years ago are as fresh today as then, notably his understanding of: the destruction of Palestinian human rights and property, the importance of refugees, the complicity of leading American Jewish organizations in Israel’s militarism, and, most crushingly, the spiritual effect of Israel’s emergence on the formerly “peaceable” Jewish presence in society.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/09/berrigans-prophecy-becoming/
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Tuesday, 13 September 2016 7:17:27 PM
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Hi David,

This might be a little 'off topic' but I really enjoyed it and thought OLO readers might to

"On April 1st, this year, Israel called off its infamous, erotic laced, birthright trips. In an interview with Mondoweiss Birthright CEO Gidi Mark explained:

--- Given the rightward, and frankly racist turn in Israel we could no longer conduct a trip that would present the country in the most flattering light. We determined that in order to build support for Israel, young people are best off leaving it to their imagination.
--- Time and time again we found participants were turned off by actually seeing the country.
--- As I watched the U.S. presidential debates, I kept thinking, “why can’t we show people the Israel these politicians seem to see?”
--- We finally figured it out, the best way to build support for Israel is to have as little contact with Israel as possible."

Brilliant don't you think?
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 1:37:00 AM
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Well, Dave, I don't think any of us work for the UN so there's no point telling us what they need to do. You need to tell them.

If I were you, I would write them a nice letter explaining to them how to do their jobs. And I'm sure they'll take it very seriously and not just immediately bin it as the inconsequential ramblings of some jumped-up antipodean nobody.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 5:53:37 AM
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#Thomas O'Reilly

Another Jew-hater comes out of the woodwork with this comment:
"I saw that one day there would be one nation state upon the land of Palestine. A real functional democracy based upon a true Constitution under Law Equal rights for all citizens and it's name would not be Israel."

Will this utopian Jew-free state comprising millions of Hamas and PLO devotees be able to match the following feats of the democratic Jewish State of Israel with its 80% Jewish-20% Arab population?

1. The US FDA has approved three wavelengths of the PicoWay picosecond laser from Israel’s Syneron Medical which successfully removes tattoos of various colors. Recent trials removed 22 tattoos from 15 patients with no side effects.

2.Israel Railways has completed the Jezreel Valley railway between Haifa and Beit Shean- reviving the line first built by the Ottoman Turks in the late 19th century and closed by the British in 1946.

3.Israel's unemployment rate fell to a new all-time low of 4.7% in July. The rate of participation in the workforce rose, to 64.4% from 64.1% in June. Standard and Poor’s confirmed Israel’s A+ credit rating with growth exceeding expectations and consumption soaring.

# Toni Lavis

The UN needs to make fresh elections happen in Gaza and Areas "A" and "B" of the West Bank.

If the UN sits idly by and does nothing it will be accountable for allowing the conflict to continue and for the consequences of its default.

The world needs another Syria, Lebanon,Yemen,Libya, Iraq and Darfur like a hole in the head.

If the people of Gaza and the West Bank are happy to continue with their suicidal self-destructing leaderships whose policies have brought nothing but misery and suffering - so be it.

At least internationally supervised elections will give them their say and the opportunity to break the stranglehold that has choked them for the last 10 years.

Are you seriously suggesting these populations should remain shackled in silence indefinitely?

BTW - you are yet to reply to my comments to you on 11 September in relation to our discussion at:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18470&page=0
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 9:17:47 AM
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#Geoff

Once again you make a complete fool of yourself and show how blind Jew-hatred can cloud rational thought.

1. Your comment has been lifted verbatim and unattributed by you from the one of your favourite Jew-hating columnists Thomas Are at:
http://thomas-l-are.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/better-imagined.html

2. The source for Are's quote (which he did reveal) is the following article from another Jew-hating web site - Mondoweiss.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/birthright-israel-ends-trips-to-israel-american-jews-are-better-off-imagining-israel-than-seeing-it/

3. The Mondoweiss article is deceptive and misleading and was written on April Fools Day to make fools out of you, Are and others who swallowed this false and misleading propaganda hook, line and sinker without caring to check its truth or accuracy.

4. Birthright Israel is still alive and very active bringing thousands of young Jews to Israel annually to see and judge for themselves.
http://www.israelprograms.com.au/program/taglit-birthright-israel/

5. Perhaps Jew-haters like you should take the time out to visit Israel, the West Bank and Gaza and see what Jews can do and achieve in the face of enormous Jew-hatred that is encouraged by people like you who are too ready to repeat and spread canards and lies that have no factual substance whatsoever.

6. Guess I should thank you once again for demonstrating the power of propaganda directed against Israel and the Jewish people and the influence it has on forming false opinions that bear no relationship to reality.

7. Would be nice to see you withdraw your comment.

In the words of a good old Yiddish (shock horror Jewish) maxim:
"If you lie down with the dogs, you get up with the fleas" (az me shloft mit hint shtait men oif mit flai)."
https://www.amazon.com/Yiddish-Wisdom-Yiddishe-Kristina-Swarner/dp/0811812022

Go get some flea powder as soon as you can. It will cost you a few dollars but the results could be life-changing.

Stop reading web sites like Mondoweiss and Are that are full of lies and deception and are fuelled by an intense and irrational hatred of Jews.

It will cost you nothing to get rid of your Jew-hatred by simply opening up your mind and checking the truth of what you readily lap up before rushing into print.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 10:01:29 AM
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Thanks for the return rant David, anyone going to the lengths you do to deny or defend something which is obviously indefensible has something to hide.

No flea problem here, odd mozzie this time of year, and the elephant in the room, you, a one eyed zealot for the Zionist cause.

No Jew hater here, it's all in your petty imagination, I just despise racists like you!
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 10:24:23 AM
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Gotcha on the hook and so easily Singer :-)

re: "Another Jew-hater comes out of the woodwork"

SHOW ME where the word 'Jew' or 'hate' is found in my quoted sentence or anything 'hateful' for I may have to sue you for your offensive defamatory lies mate, if you do not RETRACT that now.

Why are you lying and distorting what I said and what it meant Singer? Answer: A Hasbara Clone

re: "Will this utopian Jew-free state comprising millions..."

SHOW ME where the words 'Jew-free' or 'utopian' are found anywhere in my comments. Oh that's right you cannot. Is dyslexia and personal issue for you Singer?

Why are you lying and distorting what I said and what it meant Singer? Answer: A Hasbara Clone

Regarding the rest of your vapid logical fallacies, irrelevancies and red herrings, ad hominem abuse and lies, please go here to educate yourself better Singer: http://esgs.free.fr/uk/logic.htm

"If it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."

My view is very simple: That the nation state of Israel is, and always has been, illegitimate.

Like Singer, there is no obligation upon me to agree with the actions or beliefs of the UN.

It is my informed view that those couple of dozen people sitting in a room in May 1948 who unilaterally declared statehood were illegitimate and legally represented no people at all. Not Mandate Jews, not Muslims, no one!

There was never any election held to 'appoint this tiny group of fanatics' as leaders. There was never any Referendum held by bona-fide 'citizens' who Voted for any nation state on the land of the defunct British Mandate of Palestine.

The people in the room acted OUTSIDE of the UN Process and as such it was ILLEGAL and IMMORAL.

In comparison, the Colonies here engaged in public discourse over 15+ years on forming an Australian Commonwealth. Plebiscites and referendums were held across the colonies by ALL the potential bona-fide CITIZENS. These were Legally binding.

47 years BEFORE anyone had heard the words 'the Jewish State of Israel.'
Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 10:29:03 AM
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David Singer, once again a Hasbara clone makes a complete fool of themself and shows how blinding to rational thought and logic are those people who hold to the vapid archaic mythologies of most religious beliefs.

Personally I do not care whether Israel is a Jewish state or one created by Scientologists, or by African Pygmies.

The reasoning, the logic, the history, the legality, the ethics, the morality and the Human Rights aspects of my views remain exactly the same.

Just because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) by the UN wasn't ratified until 7 months after the illegitimate declaration of Israel as a nation state, does not change the self-evident fact that 'Israel' never abides by those human rights from day one.

Being an oppressed minority and victims of war is no excuse.

If "might was right" then the Brits would have shrugged their shoulders when Hitler took over Europe by force. And the Russians would not have cared about Stalingrad either.

Do not forget to retract your delusional distorted disgusting defamatory comments about my good self.
Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 10:43:58 AM
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//The UN needs to make fresh elections happen in Gaza and Areas "A" and "B" of the West Bank.

If the UN sits idly by and does nothing it will be accountable for allowing the conflict to continue and for the consequences of its default.//

That's nice, Dave. I'm still not the UN. Never have been, in fact. Did you miss the bit where I explained that telling people who aren't the UN what the UN needs to do is about as useful as tits on a bull?

In this case, I'm not saying your arguments are complete shite. Just grossly misdirected. My ability to affect UN policy is probably even less than your own, because I can't attach the letters LL.B. to my name. I'm just as much of an antipodean nobody as you, but I make a conscious effort to be less jumped-up.

//BTW - you are yet to reply to my comments to you on 11 September in relation to our discussion//

Oh, sorry Princess. Daddy has been very busy with work lately. I'll come and look at your lovely picture in just a second.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 3:14:37 PM
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David Singer,

You know that Iran is behind Hamas. What possible infuence could the UN have over Iran, which is still intent on wiping out Israel?
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 11:47:17 PM
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Off topic. Here's a major headline concerning HUGE US military funding for the next 10 years for Israel.

ABC News September 15, 2016 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-15/us-israel-sign-military-aid-package/7846744

"The United States will give Israel [equivalent of A$50 billion) in military assistance over the next decade, the largest such aid package in US history, under a landmark agreement signed overnight.

The deal, foreshadowed earlier this week, will allow Washington's chief Middle East ally to upgrade most of its fighter aircraft, improve its ground forces' mobility and strengthen its missile defence systems, a senior US official said.

While the package constitutes the most US military aid ever given to any country, it entails concessions by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to officials on both sides.

...Nearly 10 months of drawn-out aid negotiations underscored continuing friction between President Barack Obama and Mr Netanyahu over last year's US-led nuclear deal with Israel's arch-foe Iran, an accord the Israeli leader opposed. The United States and Israel have also been at odds over the Palestinians.

But the right-wing Mr Netanyahu decided it would be best to forge a new arrangement with Mr Obama, who leaves office in January, rather than hoping for better terms from the next US administration, according to officials on both sides.

A new pact now allows him to avoid uncertainties surrounding the next president, whether Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump, and to give Israel's defence establishment the ability to plan ahead..."
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 15 September 2016 10:55:10 AM
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David wrote:
" 1. Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) is not illegal , being legally authorised by article 6 of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the UN Charter.

2. Jewish settlement is not taking place on annexed Palestinian land but within Area C of Judea and Samaria over which Israel has sole administrative and security control under the Oslo Accords as agreed with the PLO.

Please check your facts before rushing in to comment."

(erm...cof cof..)

ART. 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

Oslo II defines Area C as follows:
"Area C means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement ."

Hebrew is read back to front and this is the only sensible explanation for David's regrettable problems with reading .
The UN sent in the Roman Army to talk sense to Judeans and things went quiet.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 15 September 2016 8:18:24 PM
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#Geoff

Truly amazing that you show no contrition and readiness to admit you have been scammed or even to vent your anger at having been made a fool of by Mondoweiss and Thomas Are.

Keeping company with these Jew-haters will only make a bigger fool of you.

#Thomas O’Reilly

Further examples of your Jew-hatred appear in your latest posts:

“My view is very simple: That the nation state of Israel is, and always has been, illegitimate. “

“It is my informed view that those couple of dozen people sitting in a room in May 1948 who unilaterally declared statehood were illegitimate and legally represented no people at all. Not Mandate Jews, not Muslims, no one!

There was never any election held to 'appoint this tiny group of fanatics' as leaders. There was never any Referendum held by bona-fide 'citizens' who Voted for any nation state on the land of the defunct British Mandate of Palestine.

The people in the room acted OUTSIDE of the UN Process and as such it was ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. “

For your information;

1. The Jewish National Council (JNC) was established in 1920

2. The Political Department of the JNC was responsible for relations with the Arabs and negotiations with the British government.

3. As the Jewish population increased, the JNC adopted more functions, such as education, health care and welfare services, internal defense and security matters, and organized recruitment to the British forces during World War II

4. The report of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry issued in 1946 stated:

"The Jews have developed, under the aegis of the Jewish Agency and the JNC, a strong and tightly-woven community. There thus exists a virtual Jewish non-territorial State with its own executive and legislative organs..."

5. On May 14, 1948, (the expiration day of the British Mandate), the JNC members gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum of Art and ratified the proclamation declaring the establishment of the State of Israel.

6. The members of the JNC formed the provisional government of the State of Israel.

Besides being a Jew-hater, you are a complete ignoramus.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 15 September 2016 8:58:16 PM
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The Jew-hating ignoramus goyim wrote that " by Israeli law, privately owned land can not be part of a settlement, unless the land in question has been confiscated for military purposes.
In February 2008, the Civil Administration stated that the land on which more than a third of West Bank settlements was built had been expropriated by the IDF for "security purposes." The unauthorized seizure of private Palestinian land was defined by the Civil Administration itself as 'theft.' According to B'Tselem, more than 42 percent of the West Bank are under control of the Israeli settlements, 21 percent of which was seized from private Palestinian owners, much of it in violation of the 1979 Israeli Supreme Court decision.

A secret database, drafted by a retired senior officer, Baruch Spiegel, on orders from former defense minister Shaul Mofaz, found that some settlements deemed legal by Israel were illegal outposts, and that large portions of Ofra, Elon Moreh and Beit El were built on private Palestinian land. The "Spiegel report" was revealed by Haaretz in 2009. Many settlements are largely built on private lands, without approval of the Israeli Government.

B'Tselem charged that Israel is using the absence of modern legal documents for the communal land as a legal basis for expropriating it. These "abandoned lands" are sometimes laundered through a series of fraudulent sales.

According to Amira Hass, one of the techniques used by Israel to expropriate Palestinian land is to place desired areas under a 'military firing zone' classification, and then issue orders for the evacuation of Palestinians from the villages in that range, while allowing contiguous Jewish settlements to remain unaffected."
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 15 September 2016 9:30:30 PM
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David
All though not a Jew myself, I was married to a Lois Singer for 16 years and we had one daughter who has no interest in the Jewish religion. Also my father grew up in the east end of London, so knew many Jews in his neighborhood, that he considered his friends.

He also stood with hundreds of thousands of other East endears during the riots of cable st, who stood in the way Oswald Mosley's black shirts, who were supported by 10,000 London police.

The intention of the BUF was to emulate the behavior of the Nazis in Germany 80 years ago next month. Those brave people faced off against a well armed force because they believed in protecting the Jewish population from thuggery or worse.

Jews have been picked mercilessly through out history, so I understand why you build walls and arm yourself to the teeth.
However until you start to ask yourselves "why you are so picked on" and behave in a civilized manner toward your neighbors, you are unlikely to get support from people like my father ever again. I and many like me have spoken up for your people in the past, but it becomes harder ever time I read posts from people like you.I know you think you are the chosen people and think you are special, but you are just like the rest us, with all our faults.
Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Thursday, 15 September 2016 10:41:43 PM
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#toni lavis

You state:

“Did you miss the bit where I explained that telling people who aren't the UN what the UN needs to do is about as useful as tits on a bull?”

On the basis of that thinking every media outlet that publishes the views of analysts and commentators would probably go out of business.

BTW - you are yet to reply to my comments to you on 11 September in relation to our discussion at:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18470&page=0

Is Daddy still busy with work or does he really have no answer?

#tbbn

Lots of countries support Hamas which has served to embolden it to hang on to power for the last 10 years with disastrous consequences for the Gazan Arabs. Breaking the Hamas stranglehold and giving the people a vote on Hamas’s performance is urgently required. Any UN declaration of support for the beleaguered population of Gaza to have their say is long overdue.

#plantaganet

We have gone off topic enough with the ravings of #Geoff and #Thomas O’Reilly

#nicknamenick

It is nice to see that you have correctly reproduced Article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and the definition of Area “C” in the Oslo Accords.

Any reason you did not set out Article 80 of the UN Charter?

What point are you trying to make?

#nicknamenick

The weapon of the Jew-hater – selectively quoting from outdated 2008 sources but not attributing your comments to Wikipedia as your source - rather attributing them to “the Jew-hating ignoramus goyim”.

Spoken like a true Jew-hater.

Even worse you selectively and deliberately excluded this sentence that put Israel’s case:
“According to Israel, the bulk of the land was vacant, was leased from the state, or bought fairly from Palestinian landowners.”

Building on private Palestinian land is wrong and if proved is being rectified by the Israeli Courts.
http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20150208_ofra_verdict
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.633843

Ah - but why tell people this when your objective and those of your Jew-hating mates is to denigrate and delegitimise Israel and the Jewish people at every opportunity by deliberately misleading and deceiving.

Jew-haters, ignoramuses - now fraudsters.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 15 September 2016 11:48:31 PM
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David
In your quote, the Court confirms that the state acts illegally as claimed.
Did you notice the words used in Art 6, 80 and for area C ? "Suitable" and "Palestinian" are not , repeat not, a type of Israeli howitzer.
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 16 September 2016 7:01:56 AM
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#LEFTY ONE

You state:

“I and many like me have spoken up for your people in the past, but it becomes harder ever time I read posts from people like you.”

What upsets you by my exposing posts from people like #Geoff, “Thomas O’Reilly and #nickname” as lies and distortions designed to denigrate and delegitimise Israel and the Jewish people?

If not answered they become accepted as fact and then repeated.

#nicknamenick

1. Neither the words “suitable” nor “Palestinian” appear in Article 80.

2. Again you refuse to acknowledge that Israeli Courts rectified what were found to be illegal actions. Why?

3. The meaning of the term “suitable conditions” was set out in the Peel Commission

“THE CRITERION OF ECONOMIC ABSORPTIVE CAPACITY.
64. Under the Mandate it is the duty of the Administration of
Palestine, “ while ensuring that the rights and position of other
sections of the population are not prejudiced “, to ” facilitate
Jewish immigration under suitable conditions “. In other
words, immigration is to be facilitated, but its flow
must be subject to control. In practice the Administration
has imposed such control by the application of the regulative principle
of economic absorptive capacity.

65. This Principle was clearly enunciated in the Churchill
Policy of 1922 as follows : -
“For the fulfilment of this policy [the Government’s policy with
regard to a Jewish National Home] it is necessary that the Jewish
community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by
immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as
to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country
at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that
the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine
as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the
present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration
has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the
British occupation has been about 25000.”

You will say anything to denigrate and delegitimise Israel.

Why do you continually seek to deceive and mislead in this way?
Posted by david singer, Friday, 16 September 2016 10:15:48 AM
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Quotes by David Singer: 14th- blind Jew-hatred, Jew-hating columnists, Jew-hating web site, Jew-haters like you, enormous Jew-hatred, repeat and spread canards and lies that have no factual substance whatsoever, az me shloft mit hint shtait men oif mit flai!, hatred of Jews, your Jew-hatred.

15th- Jew-haters, your Jew-hatred, the Jewish Agency and the JNC (= un-elected un-democratic un-constitutional MURDERING TERRORIST Swill), The members of the JNC formed the provisional government of the State of Israel (AND a band of happy Irish Catholics also formed the PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT of the IRA too = so what?), Besides being a Jew-hater, you are a complete ignoramus.

15th v2- with the ravings of, The weapon of the Jew-hater, Spoken like a true Jew-hater, Jew-hating mates, Jew-haters, ignoramuses - now fraudsters.

Oh David, my David, cry me a river! You're all "class" and are such a fanatical religious creep that I suspect you were taught how lie in the womb.

For the record I am a 'Jew Lover' of many sultry babes, got photos to prove it, wanna see?

People's religious beliefs are of no concern to me. But I do draw the line when the religious freak show tries to shove down 7 billion throats, with the force of nuclear weapons and big brother's protection in $billions per year for 60 years, selling the LIE that G-d gave these narcissists the land of Israel - horseshit she did!

Uou know why the Dinosaurs went extinct? They were too big to get on board Noah's Ark.

So are your lies, 3 year old insults, false public accusations ie Defamation, and an Ego too big to fit on Noah's Ark either.

In modern usage, sophism, sophist and sophistry are redefined and used disparagingly.

A sophism is a specious argument for displaying ingenuity in reasoning or for deceiving someone.

A sophist is a person who reasons with clever but fallacious and deceptive arguments.

Even at 'Sophistry' and a Hasbara Clone you are incompetent David Singer!

Please collect your ticket into 'Psychopath Heaven' on your way out.
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Friday, 16 September 2016 11:13:52 AM
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David
What is wrong with your posts, is that you never accept you are ever wrong,you accuse anyone who criticizes you as being a Jew hater, and you never believe your military are behaving in the same way as an occupying military force.

I really feel sad for Jewish people because you have suffered at the hands of the enraged mob for thousands of years.After the last time in Germany, there was a huge amount of sympathy for you and willingness to help.Even the likes of Oswald Mosley had to publicly hide his true feelings toward the Jewish people.

However that support has now vaporized and it is only those in high places (like US politicians) who verbally support the state of Israel
with lavish monitory hand outs.

However throughout Europe and the US Jews are on the receiving end of rising anti antisemitism again.I even saw in Thailand a club for Jews, which had a guard at the door, in an area where no other club had one.

So David if you want to write posts that I think would help your people in the long run then I suggest you start by accepting that Israel's military are behaving in many cases like rabid dogs.

And finally you need to stop calling Israel a democracy, as by all the defornitions in the dictionary it clearly is not.
Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Friday, 16 September 2016 12:44:02 PM
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15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war in Palestine transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states, following the Israeli Declaration of Independence the previous day.

A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq forces entered Palestine as promised they would. It was NOT fought between the "Palestinian/Arab Population" versus "the Jews", most only recently illegally immigrated post-WW2.

The then residents, "Palestinian Arabs" had lived there for hundreds of years. They were NOT responsible for the actions of other States! Not then not today!

That is what true facts and logic looks like.

'Jewish Israeli' leadership immediately instigated 'ethnic cleansing' of Palestinians by destroying their villages and towns.

aka a War Crimes against an innocent civilian population not involved in this inter-State war. More facts!

The Palestinian Arabs have never been responsible for the words and actions of other nations, including Israel herself.

If you imagine otherwise then I recommend you seek psychiatric intervention. You could be suffering from a temporary psychosis with associated delusions.

Closest thing to this flood of 'Jewish refugees' is the ~1 million refugees from Syria etc who flooded into Europe last year.

White Europeans are now singing the same chorus that the Palestinian Arab Peoples plus British Government / Military were singing across the 1940s -- ENOUGH IS ENOUGH already!

Similar cries were heard about a few thousand 'boat people refugees' arriving here.

Millions were turning up in Palestine (an impoverished people and undeveloped nation) over a much shorter period late-30s to mid-40s.

A definition may assist here:

HYPOCRITE noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite

AND

LOGIC noun
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/logic
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Friday, 16 September 2016 3:30:59 PM
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Dear David , by the waters of Babylon,
1. Neither the words “suitable” nor “Palestinian” appear in Article 80.
OK it affirms their use.

2. Again you refuse to acknowledge that Israeli Courts rectified what were found to be illegal actions. Why?
Exactly. Israel the state was acting illegally.

3. The meaning of the term “suitable conditions” was set out in the Peel Commission.

And the Jew-hating goyim ignoramus sane judge found this was breached. Why do you try to defend the indefensible?
Posted by nicknamenick, Friday, 16 September 2016 5:47:11 PM
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//Jew-haters//

Of course, Dave. Everybody hates the Jews. That's why you see so many people protesting against the building of new Synagogues, and leaving pig corpses on the steps of existing Synago... no, hang on, that's Mosques. Never mind.

You know, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you...
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 16 September 2016 11:13:28 PM
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Like Palestine , Poland was founded with international instructions to assure "full and complete protection of life and liberty to all individuals...without distinction of birth, nationality, language, race, or religion." Freedom of religion was guaranteed to everyone... The government was required to set up German language public schools in those districts that had been German territory before the war.

Complying with the laws , German inhabitants moved freely into their homelands to plant cabbages in September 1939. The economy and train schedules improved.
Posted by nicknamenick, Saturday, 17 September 2016 6:36:54 AM
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#Thomas O’Reilly
Your litany of lies continues with this statement:

“A combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq forces entered Palestine as promised they would. It was NOT fought between the "Palestinian/Arab Population" versus "the Jews", most only recently illegally immigrated post-WW2.”

The number of Jews in Palestine were:
1936 - 370000
1945 - 564000
1948 - 650000
http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com.au/

What contrary authority supports your statement that the Jews were “most only recently illegally immigrated post – WW2”

Portraying the Palestinian Arabs as not having fought against the Jews is debunked by this historical account:

“The 1948 Arab-Israeli war was the climax of the conflict between the Jewish and Palestinian national movements which had been three decades in the making. As the mandatory power in Palestine, Britain had repeatedly tried and failed to find a solution that would reconcile the two rival communities in the country. In February 1947, the British cabinet decided to refer the problem to the United Nations and the struggle for Palestine entered its most critical phase. The United Nations, on 29 November 1947, passed its famous resolution which proposed the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The Jews accepted the partition plan; all the Arab states and the Palestinians rejected it vehemently. The Palestinians launched a campaign of violence to frustrate partition and Palestine was engulfed by a civil war in which the Jews eventually gained the upper hand. At midnight on 14 May 1948, upon expiry of the British mandate, the Jews proclaimed the establishment of an independent state which they called Israel. The following day the regular armies of the Arab states intervened in the conflict, turning a civil war into the first full-scale Arab-Israeli war, a war which ended in defeat for the Arabs and disaster for the Palestinians….

…The critical factor in the outbreak of the Palestine war was thus the dispute between the Jews and the Arabs. The Palestinian attack on the Jews provoked the civil war while the Arab invasion in May 1948 provoked the official war.”
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Middle%20East%20The%20Origins%20of%20Arab-Israeli%20Wars.html

What contrary authority do you rely on?
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 18 September 2016 10:04:10 AM
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#Thomas O’Reilly
Spoken like a true Jew-hater.

Offering to publish pictures of Jewish sultry babes on the internet makes me now believe you are a truly sleazy and despicable Jew-hater.

#LEFTY ONE

You state:

“What is wrong with your posts, is that you never accept you are ever wrong, you accuse anyone who criticizes you as being a Jew hater, and you never believe your military are behaving in the same way as an occupying military force.”

I think you misunderstand what is going on here – so let me explain:

1. I write an article which is published

2. Very few comments are posted that address the correctness of the facts in my article or question my conclusions or analysis.

3. Instead there are a number of people – mainly not using their own names - who wait for my articles to appear to take the opportunity of posting comments that contain outright lies, misstatements of fact or deceptive and misleading representations with one aim in mind – to denigrate and delegitimise the Jewish State of Israel with a view to seeing its total elimination from the face of the map.

4. I can choose to ignore these Jew-haters and leave their comments unanswered or expose them for what they are by using readily available facts to disprove their false and usually generalised and unsubstantiated claims.

5. If left unanswered then people like you will accept their false statements of facts as gospel truth and be influenced by them – as you apparently appear to have been by making your above comment.

You also make the new following unsubstantiated claim:

“Israel's military are behaving in many cases like rabid dogs.”

Please give me one example of what brings you to make this statement so we can discuss it.

You make another remark without any substantiation:

“And finally you need to stop calling Israel a democracy, as by all the defornitions (sic) in the dictionary it clearly is not.”

Could you please tell me what dictionary you are referring to and post the “defornition” to which you are referring?
Posted by david singer, Sunday, 18 September 2016 10:11:08 AM
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David
United Nations must end Hamas and PLO stranglehold on power :
Then you complain about Jew haters who presume to argue with your call for what.. ? UN military fire-power? Your own courts , not the forum members here, have debunked your abuse of plain words in the agreements you quote. And you abuse all with your insults . The UN feels abused by Israel, even the US when Israel bombed its naval ship.
Please try to find some new insults , 'Jew hater' is boring.
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 18 September 2016 10:35:24 AM
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David
1. I agree

2. Only a few people are interested enough in the subject to post; most people don’t care about the problems of the middle east.

3. On this forum very few use their own name, I don’t see an issue. I don’t know enough about the agreements to know who is misinterpreting the original intention of the authors. I didn't see anything posted that said Jews should be wiped out.

4. As someone who is sympathetic to the fate of Jewish people, I think you should invest your writing skills in trying to learn why Jew haters exist. Do you honestly believe any of these posts change the opinions of anyone?

5. How do you arrive at that conclusion? People like me are interested in how the Jews can live alongside other communities without fear.

I have watched many clips on news broadcasts. Reporters that I don’t believe are bias have talked to soldiers about the instructions they have to follow when dealing with stone throwing children.

Thank you for spotting my typo. According to all the dictionaries I have ever read a democracy is a nation that has one adult one vote. In the Israeli system only Jews can vote for the members of the Knesset.

So, some questions for you.

1. Why has there been so much hate in the world for Jews over the last thousand years or so.
2. What will Israel do when Uncle Sam is finally declared broke and can’t send you free weapons to protect you from a world that still hats you?

3. When will the population rise up against the 6 families that seem to own almost everything in the country?

4. Do you think the Palestinians should have their own state?

David
I want to see a world where Jews can live to together with people of other faiths as they do around the rest of the world, is that what you want? Or do you want to see a future where Jews are isolated form all others, behind high walls topped with razor wire?

Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Sunday, 18 September 2016 12:21:56 PM
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//I think you misunderstand what is going on here//

No, Dave, it's you who has the wrong end of the stick on this one. Here's what really happens:

1. Dave writes an article which is published

2. Few people bother to read it, because once you've read one Dave article you've read them all. They're very boring and they all say the same thing: "The Jews are awesome! No, I mean really awesome. They're so awesome that they're incapable of ever getting anything wrong. Ever. Well, at least if they're from Israel. Even quite awesome people like the Seppos get things wrong occasionally, but never Israeli Jews, no-sirree. And those dirty Arabs? Well, they're not awesome at all. Black-hearted fiends they are, every man jack of 'em. They're incapable of ever getting anything right. Anybody who thinks that Arabs might ever be right about anything obviously just hates Jews because they're jealous of how awesome they are. And the UN is run by Nazis."

3. Not everybody buys into Dave's one-eyed propaganda and pokes holes in his argument. Dave throws a tantrum and accuses them all of being genocidal anti-Semites. He genuinely seem to believe that this sort of ridiculously hyperbolic ad hominem is the best way to make his case. Sometime you just have to wonder...

4. Dave sticks around for a while to provide us all with a good laugh, which is decent of him. Possibly he doesn't realise what a fool he is making of himself.

5. Dave learns nothing because he automatically assumes that any criticism made of anything he says is made from a position of anti-Semitism even when this is demonstrably not the case, and thus ignores it. People tire of being insulted simply for pointing out a dodgy argument, and decide that if Dave is so keen to play the man rather than the ball then they can play at that game as well, and play it a damn sight better than Dave. The thread spirals into abuse until everyone gets bored of it. In time, the cycle will repeat itself.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 18 September 2016 6:00:17 PM
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( David is a Palestinian)
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 18 September 2016 6:27:05 PM
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#LEFTY ONE

1.You state:

“I have watched many clips on news broadcasts. Reporters that I don’t believe are bias have talked to soldiers about the instructions they have to follow when dealing with stone throwing children.”

This generalised and unsubstantiated statement cannot possibly justify your claim that “Israel's military are behaving in many cases like rabid dogs.”

The position as enunciated by the Israel Defence Force spokesman on 18 July 2011 is:

“Although legal systems that are established under military law do not include special arrangements for judging minors, over the past year a youth court has been established that improves the defense of minors’ rights.

The Military Youth Court protects minors’ rights, allows the minors to be heard without adults present, gives more freedom of expression to the minors and allows for a broader discussion of parental responsibility as a substitute for punishment.”
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-convicts-most-stone-throwing-palestinian-children-right-group-says-1.373807

2.You further state:

“According to all the dictionaries I have ever read a democracy is a nation that has one adult one vote. In the Israeli system only Jews can vote for the members of the Knesset.”

You are wrong.

Every citizen of Israel – Arab and Jewish - has a vote.
https://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_beh.htm#6

If you have any information to the contrary – please specify the link so we can discuss it further.

3.You further state:

“I want to see a world where Jews can live to together with people of other faiths as they do around the rest of the world, is that what you want? Or do you want to see a future where Jews are isolated form all others, behind high walls topped with razor wire?”

You have previously answered this statement with your own statement:

“I really feel sad for Jewish people because you have suffered at the hands of the enraged mob for thousands of years."

Those enraged mobs still attack their Jewish citizens today.

The Jewish State of Israel must not be wiped off the map.

Do you agree?

Answer truthfully just “yes” or “no” - as #Emperor has - but which #Toni Lavis still refuses to do
Posted by david singer, Monday, 19 September 2016 9:23:58 AM
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"The Jewish State of Israel must not be wiped off the map."
Ah but which map David, the homeland total holy gunfire word-reversal
jackboot road-map of king whats his name,..David of Judah? Just 1 little divine action please and the UN can go back where it came from. Messiah will help if he joins the Zionists and stops any arguments. Otherwise he gets wiped of the map too.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 19 September 2016 12:21:21 PM
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David
As I have said that my daughter has a Jewish mother and my father grew up in Jewish neighborhoods. So I have watched listened and read a huge amount of material, which either supported and justified the establishment of the state of Israel, or challenged that. I don’t believe I am biased in either direction; I just weigh every piece of evidence.

Your statement that,” what I have seen cant possible justify my opinion” Is clearly not true. I know that many people like you aren’t interested in information that disproves s your belief. So, on this point we will just have to agree to differ.

I am not sure why this is a military issue or why a child is arrested at night and separated from their parents.

The issue of the Israeli political system is an interesting one, because it is unique in the world of politics, although not that different from the old system used in South Africa.

According to http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinians-israeli-elections/#sthash.W3EtiZ8M.dpuf

Jews can vote no matter where they live, but Arabs who have rejected Israeli citizenship who live in Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the west bank cant.As the Palestinians where resident before most of the Jews arrived, surly they should have a vote.

This is very similar to a system set up in Australia and New Zealand when the British government took control of those land masses. These anomalies have now been rectified; however it would appear that the Knesset is a long way from introducing universal suffrage any time soon.

I believe that some people are anti, Semitic, Muslim, blacks, Asian, and white. And I believe irrational distrust has caused almost all the wars. This is all the more reason for fair non judgmental people like me, to reach out to those who hate a person because of their religion, clothes or skin color.

And your final question. It depends what you mean by the state of Israel. I think Arabs should be treated as equals, and the government should stop building new settlements in the west bank.
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Monday, 19 September 2016 1:48:14 PM
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David
I am not sure why you skipped my questions, perhaps the word count ran out. So I will pose them again.

1. Why has there been so much hate in the world for Jews over the last thousand years or so.

2. What will Israel do when Uncle Sam is finally declared broke and can’t send you free weapons to protect you from a world that still hates you?

3. When will the population rise up against the 6 families that seem to own almost everything in the country?

4. Do you think the Palestinians should have their own state, and if so where?

And finally I still don’t know if you as a Jew want to live in neighborhoods that have other non Jews living in them. Do you fear people who are not Jewish?
Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Monday, 19 September 2016 1:51:40 PM
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France condemns the destruction on September 7 by Israel of humanitarian facilities funded by European and international donors, including France, in the Palestinian village of Al Aqaba (in Area C of the West Bank).
This is the fourth time that Israeli authorities have destroyed humanitarian structures funded by French humanitarian assistance since the start of 2016.
France expresses its deep concern at the continuation – at an unprecedented rate – of the demolition and confiscation of structures intended for the Palestinian population. It calls on the Israeli authorities to put an end to these operations which are contrary to international law and jeopardize the two-State solution to which France is attached.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 19 September 2016 2:17:11 PM
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A suggestion for the ultra-racist David Singer. Listen carefully to that distant sound. Yes it's a bell. Yes it tolled for Boer South Africa. Its sound grew louder until it was deafening. The racist Boer state began to crumble, and soon it was deafening and the racist state was wiped from the face of the earth as the last defences collapsed.

I know you can hear the tolling of the bells for racist Israel - that's why you keep railing against them with absurd cries of "Jew-hatred". But the foundations are crumbling, any remaining world public sympathy is turning away in disgust, Israel will go the way of its old ally Boer South Africa. Racism is no longer the flavour of the month. What an excellent riddance.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 19 September 2016 7:59:38 PM
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#LEFTY ONE

Your response is disturbing:

1.You previously stated:

“I have watched many clips on news broadcasts. Reporters that I don’t believe are bias have talked to soldiers about the instructions they have to follow when dealing with stone throwing children.”

I replied:
“This generalised and unsubstantiated statement cannot possibly justify your claim that “Israel's military are behaving in many cases like rabid dogs.”

You now respond:
“I know that many people like you aren’t interested in information that disproves your belief. So, on this point we will just have to agree to differ.”

No we cannot simply agree to differ.

You still have not produced any information to support what you saw or heard on those news broadcasts.

Tell me what those reporters or soldiers said.

2. You further state:

“According to http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinians-israeli-elections/#sthash.W3EtiZ8M.dpuf Jews can vote no matter where they live, but Arabs who have rejected Israeli citizenship who live in Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the west bank can’t. vote. “

This is not what that article states.

This is what it actually states:

“Any of Israel’s 6.5 million citizens can vote, including the 20-percent minority Palestinian citizens of Israel.”

That is precisely what I told you when you wrongly claimed:
“According to all the dictionaries I have ever read a democracy is a nation that has one adult one vote. In the Israeli system only Jews can vote for the members of the Knesset.”

My response to you:
“You are wrong.

Every citizen of Israel – Arab and Jewish - has a vote.
https://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_beh.htm#6

What kind of misleading and deceptive game are you trying to play here?

3.You finally state:

“And your final question. It depends what you mean by the state of Israel. “

I think you are trying to avoid answering the question – just like #Toni Lavis.

However to answer your query to be more specific - I mean the State of Israel that has been recognised as a member State of the United Nations since 11 May 1949.

Should Israel be wiped off the map?

Please give me a “yes” or “no” answer.
Posted by david singer, Monday, 19 September 2016 11:09:10 PM
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David
Who is being disturbed by my posts? Perhaps someone other than you could make a post that explains why they are disturbed. If you are being disturbed perhaps you should cut down the amount of time you spend on this forum.

Why can’t you just except that I like others have seen enough information to convince us that many in the IDF behave like rabid dogs.

I am happy for you to believe what you want on this point, please show me the same courtesy.

2 I am not sure why you ignored the rest of this article, so here it is for anyone else who is still interested in this thread.

Who can vote?
Any of Israel’s 6.5 million citizens can vote, including the 20-percent minority Palestinian citizens of Israel. Special arrangements are made for active duty soldiers to cast ballots in advance of election day and citizens abroad can vote in embassies. Polling stations are set-up throughout the West Bank and East Jerusalem to allow voting for the 550,000 Israelis who live in occupied territory.

Who cannot vote?
Palestinians with Jerusalem IDs– some 350,000 residents of occupied East Jerusalem– are not citizens of Israel and cannot vote in national elections, although they can cast ballots in municipal elections. Even though these Palestinians are not able to vote, they are still subject to Israeli law, pay taxes to the state, and are eligible for national benefits such as healthcare. But the 300,000 to 350,000 Israeli settlers living in East Jerusalem who are Israeli citizens can vote.

And while Israeli settlers in the West Bank can vote, the Palestinians living in the remainder of the occupied territory, the West Bank and Gaza, are not eligible to vote.

So, to your last question.

I think the state of Israel has morphed into something that was not intended by those who wrote up the original treaty. I don’t think the state of Israel should be eliminated, just modified.

I am happy to continue with answering your posts, but not until you answer the questions in my last post.
Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 12:29:07 AM
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#LEFTY ONE
Sorry - you are not getting off the hook so easily.

1. You now state:

“Why can’t you just except that I like others have seen enough information to convince us that many in the IDF behave like rabid dogs.”

Why? Because you cannot make such a serious allegation without substantiating the information you rely on.

It is an allegation that denigrates and delegitimises Israel without the slightest bit of evidence to support it.

Put up your evidence or shut up.

2. It was you who said:

“According to all the dictionaries I have ever read a democracy is a nation that has one adult one vote. In the Israeli system only Jews can vote for the members of the Knesset.”

Again – if true – an allegation that would have justified a response.

But it was a lie – as I pointed out when I told you backed up by the evidence to support it:

“Every citizen of Israel – Arab and Jewish - has a vote.
https://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_beh.htm#6

Instead of just simply admitting you were wrong you come back by submitting an article purportedly seeking to rebut my claim which itself states:

“Any of Israel’s 6.5 million citizens can vote, including the 20-percent minority Palestinian citizens of Israel.”

There could not be any clearer evidence that you were absolutely wrong and now need to withdraw your allegation which obviously was again designed to denigrate and delegitimise Israel.

Withdraw it unequivocally.

3. You now state:

“I think the state of Israel has morphed into something that was not intended by those who wrote up the original treaty. I don’t think the state of Israel should be eliminated, just modified.”

No evidence is given to support any of these vague and unsubstantiated claims:
(i) What was intended by those who wrote up the original treaty
(ii) Who wrote up the original treaty
(iii) What was the original treaty
(iv) How should the State of Israel be modified.

Your opinion counts for nothing unless backed up by the facts to justify it.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 8:30:21 AM
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I have a question for LEFTY ONE.

Lefty One asked: "When will the population rise up against the 6 families that seem to own almost everything in the country?"

I'm not challenging this reference to 6 families, but as I've never herd of them I wonder if Lefty One would say a little more about the six - who they are and what property (stolen from the Palestinians as is the entire land covered by ultra-racist state) they hold.

I might or might not agree with Lefty One's statement that racist Israel should not be eliminated, just modified. But I'm intrigued by what modification he considers acceptable. Return of the exiles to their original property? A constitution that defines its borders? Law that excludes race as as criterion for settlement within its borders?
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 10:50:48 AM
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David

Please explain what this hook is that I am on.

1. As this is an open forum that is not in Israel I am free to say whatever I want about any subject. The strength of my argument is determined by other posters, and there are no requirements to present evidence as this is not a court room, just a forum.

As for telling me to shut up, I think you are starting to look really silly, and bombastic.

2. You just posted half of the link you sent me as evidence, so I posted the other half of it. Now you send another link from your government that has only half the information in it.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinians-israeli-elections/#sthash.W3EtiZ8M.dpuf
Anyone still interested should check David’s link, and decide for yourself who is correct.

David please stop telling me what I should do, it is not helping your position.

3 I was referring to the various treaties that created the state of Israel. As they have been discussed at length on this and other threads by many people, I see no point in listing them again.

So David, do you want to continue this discussion with me?

If so please answer my questions and stop trying to bully me. If you can’t do both of those, then this is goodbye.

Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 12:29:56 PM
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#LEFTY ONE

You now admit:
"The strength of my argument is determined by other posters, and there are no requirements to present evidence as this is not a court room, just a forum."

Oh yes there is - especially when I have gone at great pains to point out the lies, half-truths and distortions being peddled by the likes of #Emperor,#Geoff, #Toni Lavis", #nickname, #Thomas O'Reilly and yourself.

Your refusal to withdraw your outright misleading and deceptive statement that only Jews vote for members of the Knesset is a perfect example - when I have pointed out that Israel's 20% Arab population also vote.

If I had not exposed your duplicitous conduct some innocent reader would believe that Jews only voted in Israeli elections when this is patently wrong.

Your decision to say good bye is welcomed.

#nickname (post 16 September)

You state:
"3. The meaning of the term “suitable conditions” was set out in the Peel Commission.

And the Jew-hating goyim ignoramus sane judge found this was breached."

What do you claim was breached?

#nickname (post 19 September)

Quit the humanitarian crap about the European Union building illegally in Area "C" without Israel's permission or consent.

Area C is under complete Israeli security and administrative control and the European Union has no case for building illegally there wthout Israel's approval.

If the EU want to help the Palestinian Arabs they have ample empty space in Areas A and B which are under full Arab administrative control.

Condemn the EU for its outrageous and illegal behaviour - not Israel. Imagine if Israel started building in France or Germany.

Another crass effort by you to denigrate and delegitimise Israel.

Perhaps you should just follow #LEFTY ONE and skulk off with your tail between your legs.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 1:37:34 PM
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Emperor Julian
The figure of six families was given to me by a young Israeli, who was a guest at the cheap backpacker I used to run in Vang Vieng Laos a few years ago. I did not do any research on it, as I was just listening to what he said. I have now done a little research as you are interested and find that Israel is the no 2 in the world on the list of wealth concentration.

The number of six may not be correct; however it appears that 34% of the whole economy is owned by eighteen men and their families. Rather than sending you links, you can find this information on the net in many places.

I think your ideas would be a good, however I would start with joint programs with the children. Soccer matches where Jews and Arabs play on the same side. Art classes where children could express on paper their daily experiences and fears. I fear the adults on both sides are not likely to change their thinking.

I think if David Singer wants Israel to have a future then he needs to focus more on the well being of the nation as a whole and stop focusing on the interests of the wealthy few.

Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 4:03:58 PM
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David
So you really want to continue this with me ok then.

I wasjust pointing out the simple rules of this forum, that does not state we need to post proof to back up our statement. If there are any people that don’t already have a pretty clear point of view on the issue of Palestine/Israel, I am sure they are able to make up their own mind.

The issue of who gets to vote for the Knesset seems to depend on which link you click on.

I clicked on the link below which you quoted the first part of.I suggest you read the whole thing before posting again.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/palestinians-israeli-elections/#sthash.W3EtiZ8M.dpuf

It is one thing to cherry pick your links, but to cherry pick bits from a link to fit your story in something else.

It would be good if an Arab from the west bank would help us out with this point. Until that happens, this will have to sit in the unproven basket.

Final point to you is could you name a few people on this forum who support your particular point of view, having followed the various posting. I do understand how hard it must be for you dealing with so many who do not see Israel the way you do.
Chris
Posted by LEFTY ONE, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 4:43:31 PM
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David
Can you hear the sound of Himmler in your 'enunciations'?
My 2nd post on p3 is in plain words from your judge which seem incomprehensible to you. Sure Israel has complete security and control ( France 1940) but your quotes show that area C is to become Palestinian. Israel knows it can't have lebensraum in east Jerusalem so uses dodgy words and loss of re-entry by travelling Arabs to force control. Why argue with us , you have the ammunition to speak for you.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 5:46:57 PM
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"You have to be more intelligent than your fear." Magda Szubanski's father who hid Jews in Poland during WW2 risking the lives of all his family.

@david singer pg7:
"Why? Because you cannot make such a serious allegation without substantiating the information you rely on. It is an allegation that denigrates and delegitimises Israel without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. Put up your evidence or shut up."

Now regarding the repeated acclamation of Jew-haters: David cannot say such things about others. Why? Because you cannot make such a serious allegation without substantiating the information you rely on. It is an allegation that denigrates, defames, and delegitimizes people without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. Put up your evidence or shut up.

A nation State is not a religion nor a faith nor a singular people. It's a State. Criticism of a State, it's government, it's system, it's constitution, it's borders, and it's actions are 'fair game' not only here on OLO but everywhere on the planet.

Be it the UK, Australia, North Korea, the USA, China, Indonesia re East Timor, Mugabe's Zimbabwe, Suddam's Iraq, or Israel.

Religion has got nothing to do with the original article nor criticisms of it.

But herein lays the ever present problem of 'Fundamentalism' on this planet across every era of human history to today.

The Fundamentalism Project was a multi-year study of world fundamentalisms which incorporated hundreds of experts on religion and culture from around the globe.

Five encyclopedic volumes on world fundamentalisms resulted from the project, all of which were edited by Marty and R. Scott Appleby and published by The University of Chicago Press:
http://www.illuminos.com/mem/selectPapers/contentsSelectList.html

Too Bad We're So Relevant: The Fundamentalism Project Projected
Vol. 49, No. 6 (Mar., 1996)
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3824283?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

DanielPipes.org - the universal traits of fundamentalism: "the envy of the modern, the tendency to foster a sense of crisis and urgency; the flair for the dramatic and the symbolic act; the shrewd, popular, and effective adaptations to modernity."
http://www.danielpipes.org/583/the-fundamentalism-project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes#Views_on_Islam_and_the_Middle_East

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Fundamental Human Rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT8Sfq-pF3

30 Articles of Human Rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36CUlaqmFi4
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 1:22:24 AM
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//you cannot make such a serious allegation without substantiating the information you rely on. It is an allegation that denigrates, defames, and delegitimizes people without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. Put up your evidence or shut up.//

Yeah. Dave, let's see your evidence that I'm a Jew-hater. Note well that your personal distaste for my frequently facetious manner, or my failure to answer questions in the way your Lordship demands, does not constitute evidence of anti-Semitism.

Are you willing to withdraw your offensive remarks and apologise? Or are we going to have to start flagging your posts for breaching forum rules every time you drag out that poor, dead horse for another flogging?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 6:48:40 AM
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#Thomas O’ Reilly

You state:

“Now regarding the repeated acclamation of Jew-haters: David cannot say such things about others. Why? Because you cannot make such a serious allegation without substantiating the information you rely on. It is an allegation that denigrates, defames, and delegitimizes people without the slightest bit of evidence to support it. Put up your evidence or shut up.”

Here is some (not all) of the evidence of your Jew-hatred - based on your own statements:

1. "My comment in the other article went: "I saw that one day there would be one nation state upon the land of Palestine. A real functional democracy based upon a true Constitution under Law Equal rights for all citizens and it's name would not be Israel."

2. Quoting with approval statements of others such as:
“Jonathon Blakeley: A guide to Hasbara trolls
"...the vile and destructive impact of Sayanim and Hasbara agents on the social networks."
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

3. “My view is very simple: That the nation state of Israel is, and always has been, illegitimate. “

4. “It is my informed view that those couple of dozen people sitting in a room in May 1948 who unilaterally declared statehood were illegitimate and legally represented no people at all. Not Mandate Jews, not Muslims, no one!

There was never any election held to 'appoint this tiny group of fanatics' as leaders. There was never any Referendum held by bona-fide 'citizens' who Voted for any nation state on the land of the defunct British Mandate of Palestine.

The people in the room acted OUTSIDE of the UN Process and as such it was ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. “

5. “Just because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) by the UN wasn't ratified until 7 months after the illegitimate declaration of Israel as a nation state, does not change the self-evident fact that 'Israel' never abides by those human rights from day one.

6. “the Jewish Agency and the JNC (= un-elected un-democratic un-constitutional MURDERING TERRORIST Swill),”

#Toni Lavis

Can you please point out where I have called you a Jew-hater?
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 8:33:41 AM
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In his commments on Thomas O'Reilly the ultra-racist David Singer has finally spelled out what he means by the libellous term "Jew hater". Not one of Thomas O'Reilly's statements that this ultra-racist cites as amounting to "Jew hatred" could be held by any stretch of the imagination to constitute hatred of Jews. In the light of history including Nazi history Jew hatred is rightly seen as a deadly form of racism which reflects devastatingly on anyone who holds it. To ascribe it willy nilly to every person who challenges racist supremacism is a sign, frankly, of being so far round the twist as to deserve to be shunned by society. It is Mr Singer's ultra-racism that has led him up this blind alley.

I use the terms racism and ultra-racism not as a tit for tat for Mr Singer's loose accusations of Jew hatred but as a pointer to a serious evil that threatens both social and international peace and justice. I've presented on this thread a strict definition which fits Zionism and Mr Singer like a glove and would be happy to respond to any rational criticism of it.

BTW the term "Jew hatred" is an extreme form of the libellous term "antisemitism" which is what Zionists often deploy when their racism comes under challenge.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 12:23:54 PM
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FWIW

Most Diaspora Jews (Jews living outside of Israel) disagree with me and support the Jewish right of return, even though you can’t literally “return” to a place you’ve never been. [...] I live in Charleston, South Carolina, home of the oldest synagogue in continuous use in the United States. I prefer the words of its rabbi at a dedication ceremony in 1841: “This country is our Palestine, this city our Jerusalem….”
http://richarddawkins.net/2015/03/why-i-no-longer-support-israel

Israeli Historians Expose Myth of Israel's Birth
By Rachelle Marshall

Every country has its MYTHS – stories that may have NO BASIS IN FACT but nevertheless serve as vital sources of national unity and strength. What sets the state of Israel apart is that its myths have become accepted as history, not only in Israel, but in much of the rest of the world as well.

Thanks to the astuteness of Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, and his successors, the conventional view today is that the modern state of Israel was the creation of a heroic and beleaguered people who fled persecution in Europe and, rejected everywhere else, sought refuge in the land that had been historically theirs.

There they were attacked, the mythology relates, first by local terrorists jealous of their success in making the desert bloom, and then by the powerful armies of surrounding Arab states.

Against overwhelming odds, outnumbered Jewish soldiers fought off an enemy bent on their annihilation, and the Jewish people survived to build a thriving democracy on what had been an unpopulated wasteland.

[...] Much of their research was made possible by the opening in 1978 of files from the British Public Record and the Israeli State Archives that had been kept closed for 30 years. The information contained in these files [...] has enabled Israeli scholars to present a NEW PERSPECTIVE on the ORIGINS OF A CONFLICT...

A significant aspect of their work reveals the remarkable consistency of Israeli POLICY throughout those years and the use by successive Israeli LEADERS of the SAME STRATEGIES and DECEPTIONS to achieve their GOALS.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p16_marshall.html
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Thursday, 22 September 2016 12:40:10 AM
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