To killarney
So welcome to the fray sister. I agree with you entirely. It makes it very difficult to defend some of the more absurd laws and comments that are themselves intolerant. All I can say is, hopefully forums like this will enable tolerant people to exchange views without the dreaded troll’s

Chris

To Lego
I am by definition a left wing liberal, and I strongly believe in free speech. Unfortunately I cant debate Australia’s 18c as I have never heard of it before this forum. However it does sound like complete overkill. I cant agree that everybody is tribal and territorial. I have met many in my life of travelling the world thousands who felt safe and at ease with others, who follow a different religion. If you raise two children from different back grounds to be tolerant of other’s they will be, however I do agree with your point about teenagers.

Christians have been slaughtering each other throughout history for no reason other than they had a few minor differences in their version of the bible. Advancement at the point of the sword is not civilized, and I am sure you would agree with me if you were the one being moved off a patch of dirt you thought of as yours, by someone with a bigger weapon than you had. So the settled are civilized and the nomads barbarians?
Then there is of course the thorny issue of what actually constitutes civilization. Personally I believe a people who have come to accept that the law of nature as the predominant law that must be followed are civilized. On the other hand anyone who wants to expand their border by force of arms is the oppressor as I have said before. As for shivering around camp fires I suggest you have a chat with some homeless people and see what they think of the dominant Australian civilization.

Chris

Hey Killarney,
I watched a video the other day of a feminist who came out saying she was not a feminist anymore.
One of her criticisms was that there was too many rules and regulations within feminism of how you should and should not act etc and if you challenge anything you're attacked for it. She said she's grown out of it and now thinks it's all just about privileged white girls who want to whinge and complain about everything and dictate what others should and should not do.
I can post the link to it if you want but it contains explicit language.

Armchair Critic

Don't bother with providing a link. I've probably seen it already. I may even have posted a rude 'Bye, bye, dear. Glad to see you go.' comment.There are quite a few of these born-again anti-feminist women pouring out their narcissistic angst on YouTube.

For one thing, if your commitment to feminism falls apart at the first (or second or third) barrage of criticism from other feminists, then you weren't much of a feminist to start with. I've had heaps of criticism thrown at me from feminists online. I either brush it off, or take the criticisms on board to see how I can learn from them.

For another thing, if you break with a certain political movement for reasons of your own, then why go all narcissistic-exhibitionist and post all your outrage on YouTube? You are only playing right into the hands of an army of YouTube MRA misogynists who make no secret of wanting to destroy feminism and will use you as their own useful idiot? A bit silly.

LEFTY ONE

Yeah. I get tired of how genuine movements for change get taken on board by the liberal mainstream and then get walled up behind a fortress of centrist gatekeeping. For example, I've been following the Corbyn leadership challenge in the UK with much interest. But the antics of many of the female Labour MPs in attacking Corbyn on the grounds of 'misogyny' and feminism get downright ludicrous. E.g. he had a shadow cabinet with a majority of female MPs, but he's deemed a misogynist because he didn't put a female in the 3 top jobs. Go figure.

To Chris the Lefty.

It may be the current political fashion among western "progressives" to claim that you are a "citizen of the world", and that nationalism means nothing. One previous western left political fashion was based upon the fact that Mahatma Ghandi drank his own urine. All of over the western world, white western lefties like yourself proudly declared that they too, drank their own urine. Drinking one's own urine did not catch on with the "progressive" caste in non western countries, and anti nationalism has not caught on among them either.

You seem to be equating Christianity and Islam as both intrinsically violent. They are not. Christianity was created by a Jewish pacifist. His message was corrupted for 1500 years by a clerical caste who chose to interpret the Jewish man's message to suite their own self interests. Islam was created by a warlord who wanted to make his soldiers invincible in battle, and to justify his military conquests. Christianity and Islam are intrinsically different religions.

If you still believe in the concept that a hand to mouth existence is something to aspire too, then you should wonder why nobody ever wants to return to barbarism? In Australia, we once had a movement of "progressive" people who wanted to live in tune with nature on their little communes. What that meant in reality is that they sat around on the dole being social parasites while any smart kids they had went back to the cities to find a job.

Barbarian societies "in tune with nature" are invariably very violent societies. The survival imperative to find and keep both rich hunting grounds and arable land means that tribal societies are constantly at war with each other. Barbarian life is usually "hard, brutish, and short."

Here in Australia, we have a generous social welfare system. No person needs to sleep out on the streets forever as shelters and free food is available. Those that choose to sleep on the streets refuse to obey the simple rule that they may not consume drugs or alcohol at these shelters.

Too Lego
We seem to be getting off topic, and as we are the only ones still posting, this will be my last post, however I suspect we will meet again on another issue.

Your story about Gandhi is one I had heard before, but I had not read that this particular idea was popular with many in the west.

I actually commented on the violence between Protestants and Catholics that went on for hundreds of years all over Europe. I cant agree peaceful followers of the Christian and Muslim faiths are that different. I have sat and talked to many religious groups which I found educational and enjoyable. All religions have a fringe element who can be convinced that their religion is correct, and all others should be put to the sword.

I am not sure why you think I live a hand to mouth existence, which is the fate of many whom survive on minimum wage jobs. I have owned homes, raised kids, had regular jobs that I changed fairly regularly when I got bored. The most satisfying job was looking after people with disabilities. One guy had a ninety degree bend in his spine, so was always in a wheel chair or his bed. He always seemed to smile at adversity, which I cant say for many winging able bodied people.

I am also a bit confused why you equate being in tune with nature with barbarism. I find people who are in tune with nature are usually, balanced, calm and generous. The barbarians are usually wearing a uniform and will kill anyone they are told to without question. Armies need wars to justify their pay check, which is probably why we a constantly at war with someone.

I am aware there is a welfare system in Australia, as with many other western countries. However the number of citizens around the world who are in need of welfare for food and housing is climbing exponentially, which shows that the economy is in trouble.

So Lego I am happy for you to have the last say
Chris