And *Phanto* another parting thought. What about multiple orgasm? Is this better than your best and if so, do you think its best to do it the same every time or rather expand out into a range of techniques?

//My claim is that the most pleasurable sex is the sex that you engage in which can lead to procreation. Behaviour which can never lead to procreation can never be the most pleasurable.//

Ah, of course. It's all about the procreation. So you have vaginal sex with an infertile women, then by your logic that must necessarily be less pleasurable than vaginal sex with a fertile woman.

A question: if you don't know a woman is infertile before you shag her (and it is quite a personal question to be asking somebody you've just hooked up with), how do you know to rein in your pleasure to ensure that you don't have the most pleasurable experience since it can't lead to procreation?

And a question for the ladies, if there are any still left on this sausage-fest of a forum: is heterosexual intercourse necessarily less pleasurable if the male does not ejaculate, again eliminating the possibility of procreation. What about vasectomies? Do you just lie back and think of England if a fella can only shoot blanks?

//If that is the best then why would anyone bother to choose sexual behaviour where their genitals come together?//

Like AJ said, variety. Oral sex all the time would get a bit samey, as would vaginal sex all the time. It's nice to mix things up a bit.

Also, one's tongue does tend to get sore after a while. The spirit may be willing, but the flesh is weak.

//How would 'nature' ensure the continuation of the species if it created oral sex as the most desirable choice?//

Nature doesn't care; evolution is not teleological.

//You seem to have a problem with just accepting the way we have been created.//

We haven't been created. You seem to have a problem with either accepting or understanding the theory of evolution.

Phanto,

It sounds like you need to read a little more carefully

<<All I can see are equally unsubstantiated claims which say that oral sex is the best or it is all just a matter of taste. Where is the evidence for these claims?>>

Well Toni Lavis, DreamOn and myself have pointed out that sexual arousal involves more than just nerve endings. I pointed out that evolution favours variety when you fallaciously appealed to nature. Yuyutsu has pointed out that fertilisation is not the hallmark of good sex.

<<So just because variety exists there can be no value put on any of those various behaviours?>>

Not objectively as you have been attempting to do, no.

<<No judgments can be made about them?>>

You are free to make judgements all you like.

<<No one is allowed to say what they think is the best?>>

And there, my homophobic friend, are the operative words: “what they think”.

<<If you really believed that oral sex is the best then you would have simply left me to my opinion. Or if you think it is just a matter of taste then you would have ignored my comments.>>

Again, if you state your opinions as fact, then expect them to be challenged. Had you qualified your opinions with something like, “in my opinion”, then you may not come up against so much resistance.

<<Obviously you are not sure of your views and feel like you have to defend them.>>

Obviously? You say this all the time and yet, whenever I list other possible motives and ask how you ruled them out, you never seem to have an answer.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17607#311627
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17648#312155

<<What is there to defend?>>

Reality.

<<What can happen by me expressing my opinions?>>

Some idiot may come along and think you have a point. That’s how bad ideas spread.

<<All that has happened is that you have exposed your own insecurities about your own opinions.>>

The same could be said for you. Which is why your amateur psychology fails: it could be applied to anyone here by virtue of them merely being here.

phanto, Saturday, 13 August 2016 6:02:29 PM

<My claim is that the most pleasurable sex is the sex that you engage in which can lead to procreation. Behaviour which can never lead to procreation can never be the most pleasurable.>>

Rather than presenting as a high-flyer in this topic you give every impression of being a low-flyer held aloft by occasional gusts of wind [with homage to Sir Humphrey Appleby]. You have yet to burst forth on the metaphysical world stage with a statement that has a tincture of credibility about it. Your opinion, sans supporting evidence, carries no weight but relies on a glib logical progression, an exercise in tunnel-thinking.

The joy of sex is simply that, a joyful indulgence. Humans have coccooned it in an impenetrable web of romantic and religious piffle. Its practice has outgrown its mundane practical value mainly due to the discrediting of religious taboos that had erstwhile made sinful the sheer enjoyment of sex. Now it is practiced purely for the stimulation of our cerebral pleasure centres on a vastly wider scale than just for procreation. Women, with their partner's tacit agreement, give oral sex not only as an improved method of climaxing but as a highly successful method of contraception.

Sex only for procreation runs a distant second these days.

People have voted with their genitalia.

Your bald opinion is utterly discredited.

DreamOn:

Why do you also feel the need to be patronising?

You might try many different things but still arrive at the same judgement so what is your point?

Toni Lavis:

Why would you interpret 'the behaviour which can lead to procreation" as the behaviour that must lead to procreation. Whether two 20 year olds or two 70 year olds are having sex it is exactly the same behaviour and it can lead to procreation. It is the only behaviour which does lead to procreation.

"variety"

Variety has no end in itself. Why would you choose to do something of lesser pleasure just for the sake of variety? Anyone who does not always choose the best when it is on offer would be a fool.

Pogi:

"Sex only for procreation runs a distant second these days."

No one has sex only for procreation. They have it for pleasure and maybe also for procreation. It doesn't prove that the sexual behaviour which can lead to procreation is not the best type of sex. Homosexuals cannot have the best type of sex.

"Your bald opinion is utterly discredited."

How is that? All you have done is described something. You have described the observation that people engage in other types of sexual behaviour other than the type of behaviour which can lead to procreation. An observation is not an argument.

Posted by Pogi:

" ... Women, with their partner's tacit agreement, give oral sex not only as an improved method of climaxing but as a highly successful method of contraception. ... "

I thought your last post summed up nicely *Pogi*

As for the quote above, and with the additional endorsement of *Toni Lavis* I am thinking that I will have to revisit my views on receiving Oral Sex. Historically, I have usually preferred to decline that particular pleasure. I shall attempt to answer why that is by answering Toni's question below, without becoming uncouth or crass.

Posted by Toni Lavis:

" .. And a question for the ladies, if there are any still left on this sausage-fest of a forum: is heterosexual intercourse necessarily less pleasurable if the male does not ejaculate, again eliminating the possibility of procreation. ... "

So as no one else has been forthcoming, I thought I would have a crack at this one by sharing something of my (admittedly limited and not statistically significant) sexual experience. For the record, I am male and hetero (though there have been a few likely lads along the way that have expressed an interest in sharing new experiences with me)

Simply put, and in my experience, if ones female partner is already in the throws of rapture, there will be an accompanying and not insignificant increase in temperature in the relevant excited tissues

(which can be enough to propel the already engorged male member into throbbing rigidity on the cusp between pleasure and pain)

AND if at this time one ejaculates into this environment, it can for some women at least be an excitation upon excitation generating cascading effects.

And AJ, some indicators which go to evidence the medical fact that this cascading series of events is occurring would include, but not necessarily be limited to, a sharp increase in dB, shuddering, drooling, gushing .. ;-) etc

So, it is worth waiting for this AND the problem with receivng oral sex for me during foreplay is because it heightens the risk of losing control before the moment.