Dear Suse,

"Paedophiles like to have illegal sex with children under 16"

Interesting hypothesis: if what you write is correct, then the best strategy for preventing paedophilia is to make it legal, then they will no longer enjoy it!

Do we have any statistics to back this statement up, on how many people become attracted to children simply because it is illegal?

However, the statement: "Gay adults like to have legal sex with people of the same gender as themselves", must be incorrect - otherwise, how come there were homosexual adults even before homosexuality became legal?

It is unclear from your post whether you believe that paedophiles are disgusting because they have sex with children or because they do something illegal. Similarly, would you also consider homosexual activity between adults as disgusting had it still been illegal?

Beauty and disgust are in the eyes of the beholder. As far as I am concerned, doing things that are illegal is beautiful - so long as no one is hurt.

Suseonline:

“Paedophile clergy are the lowest of the low in paedophile circles because they secure their kiddies from their 'flock', of whom they are supposed to be showing 'moral guidance' through their supposed religious activities.”

Kiddies would not be part of the flock if their parents did not introduce them to the flock. Kiddies do not turn up at church or at church schools of their own volition. The parents put them in harm’s way when there is no good reason for doing so. Adults do not need to be religious – it is their choice – and one of the consequences of such a choice is that kiddies become exposed to the possibility of being abused by clergy. If you put your kid into a dangerous place then you should take responsibility for what happens to them and not try and fob of the responsibility by blaming the Church. By all means blame the individuals for abusing children and blame some church officials for not acting when they knew about the abuse but you cannot blame them for your decision to become a member of that church and your decision to drag your kids along with you.

Nor can you blame individuals in the church for not showing ‘moral guidance’. It is not their responsibility to show moral guidance – no one has that responsibility unless you freely apportion that role to them. It means you have renounced your own responsibility to work out what is moral and handed it over to someone else. You can’t complain if they abuse the power which you have freely given them. They have no moral authority unless you give it to them. Just because they claim to have moral authority does not make it true until you agree with them. If someone says the moon is made of cheese and you have decided to agree with everything they say you cannot blame them when it turns out otherwise. You have to blame yourself for being so gullible.

Cont.

“Paedophile clergy are the lowest of the low...”

The lowest are parents who sexually abuse their own children. This is mostly fathers. Fathers have a responsibility to care for the basic needs of their own children. Kids cannot provide for themselves and so they are stuck at home until such time as they are able to do so. Fathers can take advantage of this and force their kids to do all manner of unspeakable things because of this power they have over them. It is way more power than any member of the clergy could ever have except maybe where they had control in orphanages and homes.

All parents have tremendous power over their kids because of the need to survive and this power is abused in many ways as well as sexually.

The lowest of the low is the mothers who stand by and do nothing when they discover the abuse of their own child. Most kids have two parents. If the father is abusing the child the child will instinctively turn to the mother to protect them from this abuse. If one adult is failing them then at least they have another to turn to but when their last recourse to safety and survival denies their claims of abuse they are faced with the most terrifying prospect of having to endure such behaviour until they are able to fend for themselves. One cannot imagine what that place is like for a child. They are condemned to years of the same terror and by the time they are ready to fend for themselves they are fit only for a mental institution.

Mothers know that their refusal to do something has condemned their own child to a life of misery. Mothers who prefer their own security of relationship with the fathers to alleviating the absolute terror of their own child – that is the lowest of the low.

Yuyutsu,

Big Nana wrote, " .... I'm not promoting pedophilia, incest or bestiality, just struggling with the concept that one group of people with uncommon sexual desires has more rights that other groups."

which you deliberately misquote as " .... "why are things like pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia etc not acknowledged as legitimate sexualities ?"

Her question is quite reasonable, but it's necessary, it seems, to point out that homosexuality is quite legal these days - although there is no legal compulsion on other people to like it and promote it, any more than there is for those other activities, if they believe they are equivalent. Heavy drinking is legal too, but some of us may find it distasteful, even objectionable.

To stress to the teenagers on this forum, legality does not mean full social approval, or any desire, let alone requirement, to promote behaviour that we might find distasteful. We don't have a totalitarian system just yet.

After all, some of us may be vegetarians but those people are social enough, usually, not to condemn people who are meat-eaters - who, in turn, don't condemn them for not liking meat, nor require them to eat it, let alone to promote it. Mind you, they don't know what they're missing :) Both vegetarianism AND meat-eating are legal in Australia, which doesn't mean we have to approve of or promote as 'normal' the behaviour which we don't choose.

Good heavens, I just implied that homosexual behaviour was a lifestyle choice. I deeply and insincerely apologise.

As for your statement, Yuyutsu, that " .... the best strategy for preventing paedophilia is to make it legal, then they will no longer enjoy it!" - is so idiotic that I'm stuck for words.

Joe

Two things I struggle with are repeated statements that homosexuality is natural and that gays are born that way and cannot change.
Taking the second point first, that is a very incorrect statement. Gays do change. They change from heterosexual and into heterosexual and there have been hundreds of documented cases where people spontaneously changed their orientation. Doing some reading on this, apparently the number going from gay to heterosexual is the largest group but it is rarely discussed because of a backlash of hatred from the gay lobby. Apparently ex gays don't exist!
The point about it being natural is also confusing. What does natural mean? That it has always existed? That the human body evolved to adapt to this?
Well for a start, the very efficient human body wasn't designed for sodomy, which requires artificial assistance to work properly, causes medical problems long term and is the greatest risk of infection, which is why AIDS was so prevalent in the gay community.
If it's natural because it has always been done, well beastiality, necrophilia, incest, pedophilia, sadism etc have also always existed but does that make them natural acts or deviations from normal?
Personally I feel it is a learned response to adverse social/family conditions or forgotten trauma, but that's just me.

Big Nana, why do you think homosexuality is now legal in most of the world, but the other sexual behaviours you mention are not? Could it be that gay sex between too consenting adults does not hurt anyone?
The other forms of sex you mention are illegal for obvious reasons to most intelligent adults I would have thought?

As for the good old 'oh it can't be natural' comments, well we all know anal sex is also used between heterosexual adults, so where do you stand on that? The adult male penis apparently is able to fit into the adult female or male rectum, so who says it isn't natural for some consenting adults?
All sexually transmitted diseases can also be caught by heterosexual people too, including AIDS.

Surely, what two adults get up to legally in their own sex lives is no one else's business?