oh dear another catholic having problems with the modern world. The world is no longer flat, Does Greg think the idea that physical and mental genders can be a at odds is incorrect? Does he believe that Parents explain these things to their kids and the state should play no role in the education of children?
Before he answers he should think long and hard about the answer. He is likely to come up with one that effectively says Christian morals are okay to force on everyone else but nobody else ideas are.

What is wrong with the Family Planning website?
I doubt many very young kids would be interested in that site if they stumbled upon it anyway, but learning about contraception and how to avoid unplanned pregnancies is only a good thing surely?

Simply hearing or reading about different sexual orientations is not going to encourage anyone into that life if they weren't born that way. If you believe in gods, then you surely must believe this God created us all, sexual orientation included......

If no one can tell me what gender I am then what else can they not tell me? If this is education then why should children trust any of it?

still people not happy to justify their own perverted behaviour, they must fill little kids who should be out playing with their filthy agenda. We have very gutless politicians. No wonder teens are topping themselves like never before. We are dumb enough to ask why.

Dear runner,

No. Teenagers are not topping themselves in increasing numbers rather the rate has been steadily declining since the 90s. Part of that is undoubtedly because those of different sexual orientation are far more likely to be accepted by their peers and supported by their elders.

Some like yourself would still label and shame them as 'filthy' but thankfully you are very much in the minority.

It is you and your ilk these kids need protection from.

Anyone who signs their child to a state-school must already be aware that they expose their dear little ones to propaganda and brainwashing. Nor may they complain and blame the school after hypocritically accepting its government-funding, for he who has the money has the say.

Yuyutsu, easy to say for you who has already been educated.

I hope you have plenty of money squirreled away, because of course you wouldn't be accepting anything at all from your hated government? No Medicare, no pension, no seniors card, no tax rebates, no seniors concessions on anything?

Naturally, if you became ill or had an accident you would not accept going into a government hospital of course? You would pay the big bucks to go into a private hospital, where of course you wouldn't accept any Medicare rebates?
And, if you aren't able to stay home alone anymore, I hope you have huge amounts of money waiting to pay for your private nursing home with no government concession rates?
Don't think it can't happen....

Dear Suse,

You are very right and I have not been educated in Australia anyway.
My real education came from my parents, from my own reflections and from books, later from university (which my parents paid for, apart from non-government scholarships) - school was just there because where I grew up there was no other legal option: if I didn't go then they would have taken my parents to jail. However, I had the support of my parents to disregard them and not believe in whatever they tried to push on me.

There is however a simple solution: if you cannot afford to educate your children - then don't bring them to this world.

Regarding private hospitals, I have a private health insurance and according to my enquiries of them, they would pay in full for my hospital stay - which is the bulk of the expense in cases of serious illness. On some medical items, however, they complement the Medicare payment and cannot help but request the basic fee from Medicare before they can top it up themselves. I am therefore resolved not to claim for those items, but pay them from my own pocket and they told me that this would not be a problem, that I am allowed to claim selectively on certain items and not on others.

Regarding nursing homes, if I am no longer able to stay at home alone nor have family living with me, then the rational thing would be to pay for someone who would come and stay and care for me. If I cannot afford it, then dying is a very respectable and natural option.

So what happens to the grandchildren of all the people like me who do not believe gender is changeable? Who believe that gender is determined by your DNA and chromosomes?
Just because someone is unhappy about what sex they are doesn't mean they actually are a different sex.
They could be simply delusional. They are emotionally unhappy with their status.
So, lots of us have been unhappy about many things to do with our bodies at some stage of our life. Doesn't mean we get to change it.
Any grandchild of mine comes home talking about the gender fairy will soon find me having a long and loud talk with their teacher.

Thank you Nana,

Just a small correction:

"Just because someone is unhappy about what sex they are doesn't mean they actually are a different sex."

Should be:

"Just because someone is unhappy about what sex they have doesn't mean they actually have a different sex.

You see, nobody is a sex, it's just a feature we happen to have and the secular schools wish to impress on children that this feature is so extremely important and that their happiness depends on it, where in fact this feature should best be ignored as few things bring more unhappiness than indulging on it.

//So what happens to the grandchildren of all the people like me who do not believe gender is changeable?//

Hopefully they get taught to think for themselves rather than having some tired old geriatric decide what they should think. Teaching people to think for themselves should be the ultimate goal of any education.

//Any grandchild of mine comes home talking about the gender fairy will soon find me having a long and loud talk with their teacher.//

I know a few teachers. They all did a hard slog at uni - it's a four year course, which is an extra year that lots of other students don't have to do, and it isn't an easy degree. As such, they all take a fairly dim view of people with no training or experience telling them how to do their job. So you can talk as much as you like - chances are you'll just be ignored.

Teachers have enough to do already without having to deal with difficult students, so they certainly don't have time to deal with difficult nobodies. They'll smile and nod at you, and then when they're in the staffroom they'll say things like 'what was that mental bitch's problem?'. And that is about the only practical effect your long and loud talk will have. May as well save your breath.

Yuyutsu, aren't you lucky you have the money to be able to support yourself without any help from the Government? I doubt you would be so anti-government if that weren't the case.

Don't make the mistake of thinking your private health fund will cover anything near the full price of hospital stays and medical bills though, because that is not true. I have top cover private health and have paid out thousands of dollars of my own money, even with Medicare help.

Also, don't bank on having any choice of opting for death rather than living in a nursing home. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any need for nursing homes at all would there, because no one 'chooses' to go into a home.

Big nana, people are born with their sexuality predetermined. I have absolutely no doubt about that at all, and no amount of 'talking to' by you or anyone else would change that.
All it would do would be to drive that person away from you, and that would be very sad for all concerned.

Toni, quite frankly I probably have more Professional health experience than any primary school teacher is likely to have.
And when the Pyschiatric Associations take Gender dysphoria out of their diagnostic Manuel and all of them agree that it is not a mental health disorder then perhaps I will listen.
As it is there is no physical evidence that this condition exists. It is based purely on emotional feelings, like many mental disorders, and no amount of surgery or medication can ever change the DNA or chromosomes of these people.
You are born a male, you die a male, regardless of what you have done to your body.
And the more people try and change the biology that is the result of thousands of years of evolution, the more confused, unhappy and depressed our youth are going to be.

Suse, you are right. People are born either male or female. And they have the DNA and chromosomes and hormones to prove it.

I was just wondering Big Nana, exactly what do you think that the poor kids who feel they were born with the wrong body would get out of making it all up?

Many of these kids feel this way from as early in life as they can remember....long before they have ever heard about gender dysphoria in school or anywhere else.
How can they possibly know what to make up?
They are constantly bullied, mocked and shunned by friends, relatives and strangers like you their whole lives.

Who would wish that life upon themselves if they could help it?
Their choice is to live their life with a lie, and end up hopelessly unhappy and suicidal, or live as they feel they should, and risk ostracism from many people they love.
Sounds like a great life, either way....

Dear Suse,

Well to a degree you could call my situation "luck", yet there are enough examples of people who did earn money in their lives which could have carried them through, but instead spent all they earned rather than saved it for a rainy day. This would include extravagant life-styles, excessive travelling, drinking, gambling and yes, also bringing children into this world when they cannot really afford it. For each child you bring, you should realistically set aside around $1M to pay for their food, shelter, clothing, health, education, etc. In fact, before planning to have a child you should set aside about $2M in case you get twins or a handicapped child. If you don't have it, then you should not bring children to the world in the hope that others will provide for them.

Well, I'm not confident that absolutely "no one 'chooses' to go into a home", I know some who did and when I go to nursing homes I do see some happy faces (here and there), but assuming that's the case, how can you support a body of people (yes, the state) that incarcerates innocent old people in a place where nobody (according to you) wants to be, rather than allowing them to undergo the most natural process of dying?

I am watching with interest your interaction with Big Nana:

What you describe is how children suffer at the hands of their peers, essentially because they were socially-labelled according to their genitals as "boys" or "girls". The problem is that society placed such importance on gender/sexuality to begin with that now those who do not meet these arbitrary expectations are suffering. The solution is to stop making a big deal of gender and the judgement of people accordingly rather than reinforcing that judgement by telling children "yes, it's very important, you should change your body so that others will accept you".

//Toni, quite frankly I probably have more Professional health experience than any primary school teacher is likely to have.//

That's nice, dear. I probably have more experience in a chemical laboratory, and more training in science than most primary school teachers. As such, I know that some the stuff young kids get taught as scientific fact is baloney. Take the atom for example: you probably thinks it looks a bit like a miniature solar system - nucleus at the centre and the electrons whizzing around in orbit like planets. It's rubbish. Atoms are nothing like that.

But just because I know more about quantum mechanics than the average primary school teacher doesn't mean I'm going to march down to my local school and harangue them for teaching scientific inaccuracies to children, because whilst I know lots about science I know bugger all about teaching it to small children. Maybe presenting an inaccurate but simplified description of the atom is the best approach when teaching small kids - I don't know, I'm not a teacher. Having a good knowledge in a particular field doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to teach it well: you also have to know how to teach. Teachers do. You don't.

If I had problems with my wiring I'd get an electrician to sort it out rather than a plumber. If my car broke down, I'd get a mechanic to repair it rather than a plumber. If I had a health complaint I'd want it diagnosed and treated by a doctor rather than a school teacher. And if I had kids that I wanted to receive a decent education, I'd want them to be taught by a school teacher rather than a dental hygienist.

//People are born either male or female. And they have the DNA and chromosomes and hormones to prove it.//

Really? Since you have a medical background, could you explain in simple English what the following mean? Ta.
* 46,XX DSD
* 46,XY DSD
* Ovotesticular DSD
* 46,XX testicular DSD
* 46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis.

Yeah Toni has faith in the 'experts' in the schools. How lovely to be so ignorantly blind.

SuSe, there are a multitude of children at schools with problems that will never be cured and that will effect their lives and the reactions of people in their lives. Some of these problems are physical, some are mental, some are environmental.
Children who believe they are not the gender they were born with can easily go all through school without anyone even knowing, unlike kids with physical defects.
There is no need to make any announcements. The class doesn't need to know that little Johnny thinks he is a girl. These days both sexes participate in mixed sports. Most girls wear shorts or jeans to school. I don't know why such a big issue has to be made of the whole thing.
We don't give lessons on mental health disorders on things like schizophrenia and tell children if they hear voices in their head, then not to worry,it's quite normal.
Sexuality shouldn't be an issue at all in primary school and in secondary school if any children have issue then the home is the place to discuss it. From recent experience with many grandchildren at high school there doesn't seem to be much discrimination against gay kids at schools these days and that has occurred without any of this proposed indoctrination happening.
More than anything, what kids need to be taught is resilience. How to cope with being different in any respect. How to build self esteem and fortitude in the face of adverse comments. How to make the best of the hand they have been given, rather than trying to change the world around them, which is impossible anyway.
As I said, many kids suffer silently. Physical defects, mental defects, sexual abuse, violence in the home, drug and alcohol addiction in the home. Gender orientation is just one issue in life's reality. Stop focusing on it and address disadvantage as a whole.

Yuyutsu, you are living in a lucky country where our people expect our government to assist those less fortunate in our society. If you look at places that don't do this, then they have some of the most desperately poor people on earth. That is how you would be living if you really followed your strange ideas/lifestyle, and had no money to back it up.

We are 'focusing' on the gender issue at present Big Nana, because this thread is dealing with that topic. Mental health issues that we aren't born with are not in the same league.

You must be naive if you think children with gender dysphoria can go through their schooling undetected. Children can pick out differences in others very quickly, and a boy acting femininely or a girl the opposite, would often be quite obvious.
They are usually branded gay , once kids are old enough to know what that means. They have often been told this by their loving homophobic parents and have heard them calling these kids 'poofs' etc, so no, it is still a problem in schools and the wider society.

It is not a common problem, thank goodness, so I don't know what all the the fuss is about in mentioning the issue in schools, other than for some ignorant religious or just plain nasty reason.

Dear Suse,

I have no problem at all with the fact that the Australian government assists the poor and unfortunate, in fact I consider it a big positive thing (although I believe it should be done more directly and in this case, say, the state should pay poor patients rather than their rich doctors - but I digress). My problem is that this government (just like any other current government around the globe), more accurately the state which it represents, even exists without having first asked for the consent of the people which are being trodden under its laws.

Had participation in the state been voluntary as should, then I would most likely (after carefully reading all the small print of the contract) be happy to take the invitation and more than proud to pay my taxes. At the moment, however, had I accepted any money from the state as it stands, then I would be profiteering from an illegitimate body that violently forces itself on others without their consent.

Now if I had no money, well that would be difficult: you think that I would agree to steal other people's money through the state? well who knows, perhaps as you predict I could lose my morals on an empty stomach, I hope not. What I should do in such case is to beg, certainly not grab other people's purses, but ask politely instead. Setting up a state in order to beg collectively is OK, but then it must still be begging, not grabbing.

Now to the topic of this thread:

Given that society has over-emphasised gender and sex for so long, including even the ridiculous fact that it has different nouns such as "boy" and "girl" only because children happen to have different genitals (no such nouns exist for example for "blue-eyed" and "green-eyed" children), this may take time to undo.

Otherwise, ideally, gender dysphoria should go undetected because gender itself would not be detected in the first place. The word "gay" should not even be invented as people shouldn't pay that much attention to sexuality anyway.

If education is about teaching children how to think then shouldn’t they also think about the fact that no one can tell you whether you are a boy or a girl – only yourself?

Should they naively accept this doctrine as absolute truth or should they question it? If you want kids to question things would you not also want them to question this statement? Wouldn’t you want to present it in such a way as it encouraged them to think about whether or not it is true?

It is not like telling them that the world is round and then showing them pictures taken from space to prove your point. Surely anything that cannot be supported by fact should be presented as an opinion or theory. It does not sound like it is presented as a theory but rather as an unsubstantiated fact.

Only educators who are trying to push an agenda would be so dishonest with the children they pretend to care about. What have they got to lose by suggesting it is only an opinion? What are they afraid of by presenting it as a fact? This is not education – it is indoctrination. Those who complain about religious indoctrination seem oblivious to other types of indoctrination which can also cause great harm to children.

By all means present various opinions about gender and let children come to their own conclusion as they develop but do not play with children’s well-being and happiness by lying to them about what is factual and what is not.

Suseonline:

“You must be naive if you think children with gender dysphoria can go through their schooling undetected.”

I would challenge any primary school child to detect such a precise condition. Acting in a ‘feminine’ way is not the same as having gender dysfunction. What is wrong about acting in ways that are normally seen in the opposite sex? Should not kids be free to act how they want or are you saying that they must act according to their gender? Isn’t that imposing your own definition of what it means to be male or female and therefore against the teaching which says that no one can tell you if you are a boy or a girl?

The school curriculum has to respond to the situation that the majority of students find themselves in. Special needs kids should be dealt with in special ways. All the kids in the country should not have to spend their time having lessons on gender dysphoria when it affects so few of them. As Big Nana says there are more appropriate places to educate those who need to know.

“They have often been told this by their loving homophobic parents...” You seem rather obsessed with people’s homophobia. One could say you have a phobia about homophobia since you rarely miss an opportunity to attack people you suspect might be homophobic.

What exactly are you afraid of? Homophobic people cannot do any more harm than anyone else. They are as entitled to their views as anyone else and so long as they do not break any laws regarding discrimination or aggression or injustice then what is there to fear? A fear or dislike of homosexuals is just a feeling - feelings cannot hurt anyone, only actions, and since their actions are restrained by the law then we can only assume that your intent is to attack them just for having feelings and attitudes that are different from your own.

Toni, you know that old adage about assumptions. It has lasted for a good reason.
What gives you the idea that just because I was a health professional for thirty years that I had no experience with education? I actually taught my own four kids in the bush for a few years. Since those days I have had multiple interactions with teachers due to the fact they failed to detect severe dyslexia in a son and two grandchildren. Years at primary school and not one teacher picked up the fact that they couldn't read.
And currently I've just had to force a teacher, and vice principal to assess another grandchild who has dyscalculia, a condition they had never heard of, until I brought it to their attention. Six years of schooling and still at year one maths level yet teachers have never failed her once in this subject!
So, whilst teachers may cope with normal children who have no difficult issues, I have absolutely no faith that inexperienced staff would have any ability to handle the issue of
gender correctly, without causing more problems than they think they are fixing.
Figures show that the number of children with gender confusion is incredibly small, less than one percent, and of those children, 80% change their mind by the time they are adults.
In addition, if you read some of the literature this program is far more than just a passing mention of sexual orientation. Children are asked to do things like imagine they are sixteen and in love with someone of the same sex.
Virginity has been given a new definition by some multi gendered person who tells them that virginity is anything you want it to be!
The whole program is wrong on more levels than I can discuss here and should be scrapped.
Let children be children and keep primary school especially a politically free zone.

SteelReDux, at a guess the reason suicides have dropped from their peak in the 90s is due to the enormous amount of antidepressants being prescribed for children and adolescents these days.
Suicide may not be on the rise, but depression certainly is and personally I feel part of it is due to the lack of boundaries and rules in children's lives today. They can't even trust having restraints and boundaries on their sexuality any more, and are left to float on a sea of confusion at a time hormones and peer pressure are forcing them to question their every emotion.
It's perfectly normal for girls to go through a stage of wanting to dress like a boy and be one of the boys at school. This has been known for generations. One of my daughters went through it. But it is a passing phase for the vast majority and they certainly don't need to be told that they are gender fluid or any such dogma, when all it is is just a common phase girls go through.
And certainly at primary school level, kids don't care if the girls want to play with the boys, or vice versa.
A study on the upbringing of adult transexuals shows that they had different parenting dynamics within the family to hetero normal kids. Which suggest a lack of conventional parenting roles within those families. Rather than reinforce their different view of sexual roles, perhaps teachers could focus more on teaching these kids about conventional parenting roles within the traditional family. Who knows, it may help them.

//Children are asked to do things like imagine they are sixteen and in love with someone of the same sex.//

Yes, god forbid that children be asked to use their imagination. And you definitely don't want them empathising with other people (sarcasm).

//The whole program is wrong on more levels than I can discuss here//

I'm pretty sure that you actually only find it wrong on one level: the level where it says there is nothing wrong with not being heterosexual. For some reason people on the religious right find such a notion deeply offensive. I can't for the life of me figure out why. The religious right don't care if you're not tall, not pretty, not intelligent, not good at sport, not polite, not compassionate etc. - only if you're not heterosexual. I find their single minded obsession with human sexuality very strange - there's a lot more to my life than just sex. Maybe they just don't have much imagination.

//keep primary school especially a politically free zone.//

//perhaps teachers could focus more on teaching these kids about conventional parenting roles within the traditional family.//

ROFLMAO

Unless it's the politics of the religious right, eh Big Nana? It's fine for kids be indoctrinated in that sort of politics - just none of this dreadful liberalism or accepting those who are different.

There's no need for the dishonesty, Big Nana. On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

You give an activist an inch, and he/she/it will take a mile.

What a waste of $8m

Toni Lavis:

“Yes, god forbid that children be asked to use their imagination. And you definitely don't want them empathising with other people (sarcasm).”

Why do you need to tell us that is sarcasm? Surely no one could presume that it is a logical argument. Big Nana says that she does not think it appropriate for primary school children to use their imagination in one particular case and you infer from that that she never wants them to use their imagination at all – it is such a ridiculous conclusion that it could not be serious.

You conclude from her opposition to one exercise that she does not want children empathising at all. How could such statements be anything but sarcasm?

Why do you need to resort to sarcasm? It serves no purpose in the pursuit of truth. It is only used to pour scorn on an argument without ever presenting a counter argument. Scorn tells us nothing of the scorner’s opinions but only of their inability to argue and the hope that they can ridicule their opposition into oblivion.

Why does it matter if arguments come from the religious right? It is the arguments themselves which are important – not where they come from. If you really want to find the truth then you will listen to what they have to say and then dismiss it for its poor logic rather than the fact that it came from any particular group. Pointing out that it comes from a particular group only serves to show us your prejudices and bigotry towards the religious right.

Phanto, you spend far too much time big-noting yourself and your holier-than-thou attitude about everyone else's views on subjects, we rarely get to see exactly what you think.

Just because someone disagrees with someone else's take on a subject, doesn't make them a bully. To my mind, homophobes are bullies.
Not because they don't understand or agree with the gay lifestyle, but because they denigrate gay people and all those who support their right to legally live the life they were born to.
That is ignorance and bullying in the extreme, whether you like it or not.

Suseonline:

“Phanto, you spend far too much time big-noting yourself and your holier-than-thou attitude about everyone else's views on subjects, we rarely get to see exactly what you think.”

If you do not know what I think about the subject of this thread then you have not read the thread. I have given my views and I have also pointed out the bullying by you and Toni Lavis. They are two entirely separate activities. Pointing out bullying is not having a holier than thou attitude it is something we should all take responsibility for on the forum and throughout society. You think that homophobic people are bullies and you think that their behaviour should be exposed for what it is – does that mean you have a holier than thou attitude?

“Just because someone disagrees with someone else's take on a subject, doesn't make them a bully. To my mind, homophobes are bullies.”

I can’t see where I have said that it does. Can you show me where I have said that? Like I have said arguing about the topic is one thing – using the forum to display your predjudices and bigotry is another altogether. We do not need to know what you think about homophobic people - that is an entirely different subject to the subject of this thread. When you use this topic to denigrate homophobic people it is because you are more interested in denigrating them than you are in the topic at hand which is the welfare of children at school.

There is no reason to denigrate homophobic people just because of their views and there is no need to denigrate them because of their behaviour. If you think their behaviour is wrong then tell them so and report them to authorities if they have broken the law but making snide remarks in totally inappropriate discussions is just bullying and cowardly.

Once again assumptions are made and they are totally wrong. I'm not religious at all. My objections to teaching children about complicated issues at an age they are suffering sexual confusion themselves has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with mental health.
Many children feel they are in the wrong body when they are at an impressionable age. The vast majority of them grow out of this and this is backed up by research figures.
The last thing they need is to be told is that this is normal, when in fact gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder listed in the DSM5.
So, in the search for empathy, do we also ask children to role play imagining they are schizophrenic or bipolar? As autism is far more common than gender dysphoria, do we spend lesson time getting students to pretend they are autistic so they can empathise more with those kids?
And on a final note, after reading some of the material presented in this program, since when does a multi gendered person get to tell impressionable kids that virginity has no definition?That it is anything they want it to be. In other words, do anything sexual you want, you can still claim to be a virgin.
At a time when std rates are soaring in some areas, the last thing we need is kids being told that everything is on the table and they can indulge without repercussions.

Phanto your false protests at feeling bullied because you are a homophobe are getting boring now. If you think I have bullied you then report me to the administrator.

Big Nana, I have only ever met 2 kids in my whole nursing and private lifetime who really felt they were born in the wrong bodies. It is actually very rare.
Many kids like being with and acting like the opposite sex to themselves, but rarely would they like to go on and change their bodies etc to become another gender.

Certainly I don't know of any kids who 'decided' they were born the wrong gender simply because they were taught about it in school! That is absolute rubbish....

Suseonline:

Most bullies do find the subject of bullying rather boring. I never said that you had accused me of being homophobic or of trying to bully me in this thread it is more about your general bullying behaviour towards people you think are homophobic.

When we are having a discussion about what is appropriate subject matter for primary school students in the area of gender identification you make snide remarks about parents who might disagree with you by labelling them as homophobic. There is absolutely no good reason to make such a remark in this discussion. I cannot see why that word would need to be used at all in this discussion unless it is used to make some ‘cheap shot’ and cheap shots are one of the tools of the bully. Homophobic people have as much right to exist in society as you do but you seem to want to hurt them so that they will go away. That is why you denigrate them and ridicule them and pour scorn on them at so many opportunities.

Homophobic people have certain feelings about homosexuality – that is what even homosexual people accept. They have fears and dislikes and they are entitled to those feelings just as you are entitled to yours. When you denigrate people for having perfectly legitimate feelings then you are bullying them. Do you denigrate depressed people or timid people or people with stage fright or people with arachnophobia or claustrophobia? It would be rather cruel if you did. So why is it not cruel to denigrate people with homophobia? Why is that not bullying?

If homophobic people break the law then they should be dealt with the same as if a depressed person breaks the law. People are punished for breaking the law and not for having homophobic feelings or depression. When you want to put people down just for having certain feelings then you are a bully.

Phanto, I have not put anyone down for their feelings or anything else, so I can only think you just want an argument because you are bored, or are you just an unpleasant argumentative person?

Websters dictionary states "Definition of homophobia. : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals."
Do you not see yourself and some others on this forum fitting this description?
If so, then me calling you or others homophobic is just stating the obvious, and nothing else.

You need to get over yourself and just move on from this thread now.....like me.

“Phanto, I have not put anyone down for their feelings or anything else, so I can only think you just want an argument because you are bored, or are you just an unpleasant argumentative person?”

Well you would say that because bullies always think it is the other person who has the problem.

You must have had some doubts about your bullying because you went and looked up the dictionary for the definition of homophobia but it is a very poor definition. If Webster says that it is an irrational fear then does he mean that there can be rational fears of homosexuals? Which ones are which? Or is he saying that all fears of homosexuals are irrational? Which is it? How can he know that all such fears are irrational without testing each person?

How can homophobia be both a feeling and an action? Discrimination is discrimination – it can’t be something else at the same time. Discrimination is an activity. Fear is a feeling and so too is aversion. How can homophobia be two entirely different things?

“calling you or others homophobic is just stating the obvious”

But why do you need to state it if it is obvious unless you mean to bully them with such a statement?

“You need to get over yourself and just move on from this thread now.”

Of course you would want me to move on – bullies always want to change the subject or shut it down.

Lol! Yes Phanto, the Webster dictionary is wrong and you are right.
You must feel humble in your own presence...

Suseonline:

“Lol! Yes Phanto, the Webster dictionary is wrong and you are right.
You must feel humble in your own presence...”

Who said I was right? I am entitled to have an opinion no matter how ridiculous it may appear to you.

If you think I am wrong then why not tell me what is wrong about my opinions. But of course that is not why you have posted. You have only posted with the intent to ridicule me simply because I disagreed with the dictionary. Ridicule and bullying are the only reasons why you post most of the time.

Dear Phanto, you are the one with the problem, but remember no one can bully you unless you let them into your head.
Maybe if you feel so upset it is best if we don't communicate further on this forum.
Not a problem.

Suseonline:

That's what bullies always say.