Tristan,

The marxists and fascists are both far left/right sides of the same coin and must be avoided.

Similarly the Greens' policies are really only wildly impractical and uncosted wish lists.

As for the greens' compromise on removing Labor costly gesture politics that gets companies to publish information that is already available from their end of year reports will not generate one red cent of additional revenue, but is simply to make Labor look like it is "doing something", the only reason Dinner Tally did this is to screw Labor, who is the greens natural competition.

Marxism undeservedly has a bad name. Sure there were the Stalinists at the worst extreme ; and the Leninists and Trotskyists also defended the indefensible at times. But Marxist social democrats were also amongst the first to fight for full, equal and universal suffrage. Marxists also opposed the First World War ; fought for women's and indigenous rights far before it became 'mainstream'; fought for the welfare state and workplace rights; fought against fascism from the outset and so on. (though there was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - which might have been avoided had the West been more decisive in prioritising the anti-fascist struggle) Marxism will probably never regain the relatively hegemonic place it once had on the Left. But its a very diverse tradition with a lot of theorists (including Marx himself) who are very useful to think with. The theorists from the Marxist tradition have a legitimate place in the 'theoretical toolbox' of progressives today. That's probably better than it having 'hegemonic' status anyway. Though the global Left still needs a cohesive practical and theoretical framework for global co-operation as well. That doesn't exist right now.

Kind of diverting from the point of debating ALP Policy and relations with the Greens mind you...

Shadow Minister, you seem to favour only what maintains the status quo?

Doesn't matter. Tanya will be "Dear Leader" next year and will change the colour of Labor livery to dark green.

Tristan,
That comes off as disingenuous, you know very well the steps required of the ALP to take the impetus away from nationalist groups and the Greens. A shift back to the ideals and policies of pre 1949 Labor would captivate the White working class, it's absurd that UPF speakers are quoting Lang and Calwell while the opposition are still entranced by Marcuse and Alinsky.

Jay its not only the 'white working class' we need to concern ourselves with. Its the working class and its potential allies generally. Calwell was also a product of his time. Sure earlier Labor leaders were stronger on economic justice in many ways. But we have a very deeply embedded multicultural society now. And so long as we succeed in integration (NOT assimilation) that can work in our favour. (ie: Australia's favour)

As for Marcuse - yes he's interesting. But personally I still have hope for the working class - and not ONLY for a 'Great Refusal' on the part of the students and the most marginal. Indeed over the past few decades students have been progressively de-radicalised. Though he does have a point re: the 'affirmative mentality' which holds that capitalism 'delivers the goods' and hence should only be affirmed and not negated...

The proverbial will quite possibly hit the fan in the coming years: attacks on welfare and workers. I worry that we're not at all prepared to deal with it in the ALP, including on the ALP Left.

Jay, the working class needs more than economic justice. It needs its liberties; its dignity... It needs inclusion in a participatory democracy. And this holds the hope of overcoming some of the worst features of capitalism. (eg: extreme stratification; raising profit as 'the highest principle' in every instance - placing it ahead of human life and human need; inefficiencies that lead to unnecessary and painful austerity...)

Far-Right Ideology does not deal with any of this. It splinters and divides the working class. Rather than building solidarity it creates divisions that make that impossible - and ensure the defeat of the (organised and conscious) working class and its allies. Even if you 'get the trains running on time' that is little consolation for a working class that dares not dissent and lives in fear.