It's depressing to note that one of the only areas Labor hasn't been contrarian is offshore processing!

'Runner, The Left has never been violent'

Oh so the violent bigots opposing the so called ''racist are not from the socialist left. I wonder where they are from?

?Runner! You don't make sense.

Runner ; You are probably talking about the confrontations between the far right and the far Left over issues such as the construction of a mosque in Bendigo. Much of the thinking behind these far right movements is based on fear and ignorance. So many of the far-right participants wouldn't even know the difference between Shia and Sunni ; or the fact that the mujahedeen were considered Western Allies during the Cold War. Alliances shift ; religious, cultural and political movements are colonised. Yesterday's allies become today's enemies - and somehow it all has to be justified.

Very '1984-ish'.

I understand people don't want 'Sharia law'. But where is that coming from? Muslims make up barely over 2 per cent of the Australian population. And I understand people have a notion of 'the Australian way of life' - which used to be considered 'liberal, democratic AND egalitarian'. (The Conservatives have tried to erase the egalitarianism) But let's be clear: A liberal society is tolerant of difference ; tends towards pluralism.

Of course that liberalism and pluralism can come under threat if ultra-conservative or reactionary movements of ANY kind (religious, political) get too much of a hold. But Islam in this country is diverse - as Christianity is - even though I dare say Christianity has gone further down the path of 'liberalisation'. Yes we have a 'way of life' to defend - but pluralism, liberty, multiculturalism are part of that. And we need to balance the defence and promotion of liberty, egalitarianism, pluralism - with tolerance of difference.

What's more we shouldn't judge cultures when we do not understand them. I'm no expert on Islam. That said - so long as my rights and liberties are not threatened I have an attitude of "live and let live". Yes there's the threat of Terrorism - which has heightened with Middle East interventions. But the far-right only inflames the situation - confirming the very small minority who may be radicalised in their Ideology.

But getting back to the point I think Runner is making: He wants to defend the liberal right to demonstrate...

Liberal rights are very important... Sometimes it makes sense to consider them as 'absolutes'. Sometimes those very rights turn out to be just too fragile otherwise... But sometimes we need to be practical when a real threat - like Fascism - raises its head. Fascism is a threat to liberals, social democrats, socialists alike - and even genuine conservative democrats.

The extent to which we compromise on liberal rights needs to depend on the scale and the nature of the threat. And even then we need to be careful. Surely a lot of German people felt there was a 'threat' when the Reichstag was burned down for instance... Certainly 'the line that must never be crossed' is that of the formation of right-wing paramilitaries. Or the Right-wing politicisation of the police and/or military.

My instinct is to try and engage and convince rather than have a violent confrontation. But the far left's strategies are based on nipping the fascist threat in the bud. There is a difference between far left and far right also. The far left rejects racism for a start, and tends to accept a multicultural Australia. Though there are exceptions (Stalinists) they are also more sympathetic to our liberties. And their attitude to the far right is definitely the exception and not the rule. I would use different strategies. But I think I have an appreciation why they act as they do "to nip the threat of fascism in the bud".

Oh yeah Tristan so the Socialist Alliance (the real facist) can't allow the police to decide what is lawful and what isn't. Your intolerance and bigotry far surpasses the average person against Islamic immigration.