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The Forum > Article Comments > Christopher Pyne, Bronwyn Bishop and Tim Wilson: have they no shame ? > Comments

Christopher Pyne, Bronwyn Bishop and Tim Wilson: have they no shame ? : Comments

By Stuart Rees, published 29/12/2015

And how do we comprehend the hypocrisy of a Human Rights Commissioner - Wilson - who appears to have been 100% reliant on the word of one side?

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Had people in Australia been daring enough to construct their own improvised villages out in the country without permits, then built a school to serve 170 of their children from 5 such villages, would the Australian authorities treat them any better?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 12:22:26 PM
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what on earth is the Stuart banging on about. The PM of Israel described the attackers as terrorist and they were arrested. Compare this to the Islamic world where terrorist are generally made heroes out of especially when they blow up innocent children. What rubbish do they brainwash people with at our unis when Stuart is allowed to publish such distortions. I would sugest it is him who knows no shame not the pollies he demonises.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 12:34:09 PM
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Dear runner,

Don't you dare ignore or excuse this.

Look at the video.

http://youtu.be/dfkd0r1yY10

In it you will see over a hundred Israeli settler wedding guests dancing, many with knives and guns held aloft. One can be seen atop another's shoulders stabbing a knife through a picture of the 18 month old Palestinian baby who was burned alive in the arson attack by Jewish settlers. What depraved sickness allows this kind of behaviour at a wedding?

I realise your brand of Christianity forces a degree of myopia over the actions of Israel but if you do not see the evil in that room and condemn it for what is plainly is then you sir should not be surprised if the Lord you claim to worship disavows you.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 1:00:09 PM
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This essay titled Slaughter Through a Stethoscope supports and extends the content of Stuart's essay - very muchly so.
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/34287-focus-slaughter-through-a-stethoscope
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 1:04:09 PM
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'I realise your brand of Christianity forces a degree of myopia over the actions of Israel but if you do not see the evil in that room and condemn it for what is plainly is then you sir should not be surprised if the Lord you claim to worship disavows you.'

I would say it is far closer Steelie to the butchers who cut up unborn babies, something you don't seem to have to much problem with.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 1:18:38 PM
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Runner, why do you have such a problem with unborn babies, which you constantly post about in most of your comments on OLO.

If you believe so much in your God, and in his and your eyes all these unborn children are innocent, well then your argument is irrational.

By your measure all these unborn foetus are innocent, thus when killed they would automatically go to 'your' heaven! If this is the case, they are in that so-called most wonderful of places. What is the problem?

You can't have it both ways.

Why the concern, the false outrage, by your belief system all those dead unborn are with your God, the place you aspire to get to as well.

As for me, I think I would be a little uncomfortable going somewhere to be surrounded by a whole bunch of foetus running around. A conundrum wouldn't you say?
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 2:07:58 PM
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Great put down comment on Runner by Geoff.
Pathetic comment by Yuyutsu.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 3:22:43 PM
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Dear Daffy,

Like it or not - Così fan tutte!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 4:39:11 PM
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Geoff in Perth

you r obvioulsy blind to the fact that non religous people are as violent if not more so than religous people. Amazing how you put your own narrative on such a murderous practice.

you also write

'As for me, I think I would be a little uncomfortable going somewhere to be surrounded by a whole bunch of foetus running around. A conundrum wouldn't you say?'

u are obviously as ignorant on spiritual matters as you are natural. Not surprising.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 5:00:42 PM
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Oh Runner you do surprise me! You standing up for the Human Rights Commissioner Tim Wilson, who is openly gay, and a strong defender of gay marriage (Wikipedia).
He was a member of your beloved Liberal party of course, as are Chrissy Pine and Bronny Bishop.

No wonder they all only listened to the Israeli side of the story, just like their beloved American pollies residing on the far right. Jesus was Jewish after all.
Mind you, Jesus told us the story of the Good Samaritan, who was apparently not Jewish, but many Christians choose to conveniently forget this tale...
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 7:50:52 PM
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' Oh Runner you do surprise me! '

I wish I could say the same for you Susie. You are so predictable with your dogmas and sides you need not post as we already know what you will say.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 9:46:06 PM
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Lol Runner, the pot calling the kettle black!
Here's to another fine year of our joyful chats here on OLO.
Happy New Year Runner.
Cheers,
Suse.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 9:55:26 PM
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Runner you state "you r obvioulsy blind to the fact that non religous people are as violent if not more so than religous people."

Can you please provide the stistical evidence to support your claim, I doubt it, just more blind hatred and ranting according to your faith. I would estimate the majority of violence today, particularly in the Middle East and North Africa is a result of religious intolerance. Go figure, engage the brain before you type ridiculous statements.

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself, a little bit of additional education wouldn't go astray either.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 9:56:40 PM
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One cannot be religious AND violent - it's a contradiction!

Obviously one could claim to be religious, words are cheap and even a whole group could claim to be a religion - but if they are violent, then they are not.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 29 December 2015 11:13:42 PM
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While I seldom support runner, in this thread he is the voice of reason.

While what happened at the wedding is despicable, a handful of nutjobs does not define an entire nation of millions. The outrage amongst normal Israelis was huge and was reflected in the statements of Israeli politicians.

By comparison there are a hundred fold sites showing palestinians celebrating the stabbing of innocents incl jewish women and children, and the Palestinian leaders celebrating and encouraging this depravity.

If there is a side to shun or boycott in this conflict it is not the Israelis. Stuart Rees is the one with no shame.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 4:59:28 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I totally disagree with your statement 'One cannot be religious AND violent - it's a contradiction!'

Violence and religion are two sides of the same social control coin. For example look at the underlying meaning in the ideology of jihad in Islam which condones the use of violence against non-believers as a vehicle for conversion to its faith. And what about sacrifice conducted by ancient and primitive religions. And what about the tortures conducted by the Church during the religious wars throughout the 16th & 17th centuries in Europe. Half a million people - mostly women accused of witchcraft - were tortured and executed for heresy against the Church during the early modern period.

You are obviously bias toward your religion and blinded to the reality that religion has been used as a mechanism for social control through the exertion of violence against those whom the stalwarts of religion see as a threat to 'their' social order. Unfortunately Yuyutsu, like most adherents of religious doctrines, you are unable to distinguish reality from myth. You are doomed to live your entire life in a world of fantasy
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 7:12:58 AM
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Dear Mr. Opinion,

The reason that violence is incompatible with religion is that there is nothing but God - you are God and so is the one you are violent towards. Since you wouldn't want to hurt yourself, by hurting another you deny the commonality in essence between you, that you and them are the same, instead believing that you are separate - which takes you away from God, rather than towards God, which is what religion is all about.

Those violent forms of Christianity and Islam which you described are therefore not religions. You may well argue that Christianity and Islam as a whole are not religions (but rather, as you say, some social-control mechanisms) - nevertheless, I have observed people who successfully use those techniques for their religious advancement towards God, so I wouldn't discard them altogether.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 9:09:50 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

Thanks for enlightening me and showing me the error of my thinking. It's all so obvious when you point out that Islam and Christianity are not actually religions and that God is God. It all makes sense to me now! How could I have ever have gone wrong and misunderstood the truth. I guess I've spent too many years at uni studying humankind and its cultural and social forms to actually realise the errors of my way. I should have enrolled in 'Religions Ain't Religions 101' and 'God's God 101' so that I wouldn't go around asking stupid questions. (By the way, did you know that GOD is DOG spelt backwards?).
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 9:43:09 AM
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This is just a drawn out rant and excuse to express hatred of Israel. Pyne, Bishop and Wilson are just props for another boring anti-Semitic rage.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 10:12:20 AM
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I simply cannot see any justification of the dispossession of the palestinians, any more than I can see the same when Hitler and his minions did likewise to the jewish counterpart!

Like it or not the Jews under Netanyahu are becoming as bad as the reviled nazi butchers and SS storm troopers.

And one supposes, those few Jews who took up arms to resist the nazi war machine, would have been similarly labeled terrorists?

Not that I condone the palestinian approach given it is just as mindless as those who dispossess them of their land and human rights; but would prefer the Gandhi approach of peaceful resistance while the whole world watches; along with a continued commercial boycott, the only thing which seems to be affecting those entirely bereft of a conscience.

The only approach which may stop the bloodletting, and the shameful mealy mouthed excuses for the over the top excesses!

Women and children are hardly seasoned resistance fighters!

Which apparently has to include the aforementioned mealy mouthed conservatives toeing some official party line?

And just what you'd expect from conservatives,with Sergeant schulz's syndrome, who arguably put the dollar and its acquisition ("trade deal") ahead of almost any other consideration?

Time for a rethink, and calling to account, those who think there is any justification in dispossessing a whole race for the sins of a pitiful few!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 10:52:29 AM
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Rhosty,

That's pure racist bigotry on your part. The moment you start using comparisons to Nazis your argument is logically and morally bankrupt, especially when the behaviour of Hamas in Gaza is far more vicious, racist and tyrannical than anything the Israelis have ever done.

Rather the "race" of Arabs including Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians etc attacked Israel 3 times with the express purpose of committing Genocide on the Jews, which is precisely how they came to lose the land.

Israel has always had the policy of trading land for peace, such as the return of the Sinai to Egypt in return for recognition and a peace treaty. However, even after Israel withdrew from Gaza as a gesture of goodwill and enabled Palestinian self government, neither PLO nor Hamas has recognised the right of Israel to exist and still have the destruction of Israel in their charters, the chance of genuine negotiation on their part is negligible.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 11:38:46 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

I thought your earlier post was just partisan politics, protecting your poster children – those conservative Liberals like the disgraced Bishop along with Pyne and Wilson, but this latest offering shows just how little you are able to think for yourself.

Rhosty is perfectly entitled to compare the actions of successive Israeli governments as acting like SS Stormtroopers. Many prominent Jews, even Israeli Jews, have done just that with strong justification. It is not a comparison I am comfortable deploying myself but the shoe does fit.

It is not in any way “pure racist bigotry” and I'm sick and tired of those like you who claim it is.

Further more Israel does not trade land for peace. This is an outright lie. Name for me one acre piece of land that Israel rightfully owned that it has freely given away? There is none.

The PLO or Fatah has already recognised Israel's right to exist even under Arafat. Israel's reply? To yet again shift the goal posts and demand the be recognised by the PLO as a “Jewish” state.

Lastly you claimed “when the behaviour of Hamas in Gaza is far more vicious, racist and tyrannical than anything the Israelis have ever done”. Do you ever think about these things when you write them? By what measure can you claim this? Lives lost? The number of children killed and maimed? Please tell me.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 12:42:51 PM
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SR,

Rhosty, you or anyone else is entitled to racism and bigotry, just as I am entitled to call it out. There is a strong streak of anti-semitism amongst the left whingers that they desperately try and disguise.

Every Arab nation is far closer to the Nazis than Israel, and if the Democratic nation of Israel did mimic the SS storm troopers as Sadam, Assad, The Saudi govt, and Gaddafi did there would be no Palestinian issue and few Palestinians.

A suitable test is whether one particular race or group is being held to standards that are not applied others and are being punished for it. The simple fact that the horrors and human rights abuses inflicted on the people of Gaza by Hamas outstrips anything meted out by Israel in self defense is blithely ignored by these pompous bigots.

When these selective finger waggers open both eyes and begin to demand the boycott of Hamas and the PLO until such time as they call elections, stop the arbitrary executions of gays, women and opposition members, recognise the right of Israel to exist, and agree to talks without ridiculous pre conditions, then maybe there will be a path to peace.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 30 December 2015 3:21:46 PM
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Dear ShadowMinister,

Put the songbook down mate.

Israel is illegally occupying the land of another people and continues its forced displacement, torture, arbitary imprisonment, and extra-judicial killings.

The last war in Gaza took over 2,200 Palestinian deaths (70% civilians) and 10,000 wounded compared to 73 on the Israeli side of which 7 were civilians.

The blockade preceding it and continuing to this day is brutal, against the Geneva Convention, and a human rights violation of the first order.

You call anyone criticising Israel's actions a racist and a bigot.

Here is what I don't get, why do you do it? I assume you are not Jewish something that would have given you some small justification, so what is your reasoning. I mean normal person looking at the misery, indignity and death inflicted by Israel on the Palestinians would see it as the crime it is, but not you.

You deem a simple precondition of the cessation of continued settlement building on occupied Palestinian territory as an unreasonable.

I am reading a book by Donald Neff on the Suez crisis titled Warriors at Suez. It is quite eye-opening revealing how little trust Eisenhower and his administration had toward the murderous thugs who have held the leadership of Israel. The Israel lobby has certainly been very effective in shifting perceptions but why have you, an Australian half a world away, maintained such a jaundiced position on this issue?

I'm guessing it is your hatred of 'the Arab' that is partly to blame, it doesn't answer the whole question, but your racism and bigotry is very much on display.

You sir are a sheep.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 31 December 2015 12:43:17 AM
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SR,

I can only assume that your display of racism and bigotry stems from your hatred of the Jew. And you are clearly a sheep.

I have no connection whatsoever with either Judaism or Israel, nor the Arabs, however, I consider the inability to look at both sides of an issue before making judgements, and trotting out blatant propaganda as biased and bigoted as you have clearly done.

The allies killed millions of Japanese civilians in the final assaults on Japan, Russia invaded and occupied nearly half of Finland in 1940, China invaded Tibet, yet I hear no bleating from the left whingers.

The reality is that the Gaza war was deliberately provoked by the firing of roughly 2000 rockets and mortars into Israel, and before action was taken. The action killed well over 500 militants and destroyed their arsenals and tunnels which Hamas deliberately hid within civilian populations. (a war crime in itself). I defy you to find a single country that would accept that level of aggression without taking action.

As for the pre-conditions that the Palestinians have set for talks, the building of settlements was frozen for a long time, and still the Palestinians would not come to the table.

I don't agree with many of the actions that Israel has taken, but to avoid being a hypocrite, I look at both sides of any story. I suggest that you try it, it could be refreshing.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 31 December 2015 7:03:15 AM
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Dear ShadowMinister,

You wrote;

“The reality is that the Gaza war was deliberately provoked by the firing of roughly 2000 rockets and mortars into Israel, and before action was taken. The action killed well over 500 militants and destroyed their arsenals and tunnels which Hamas deliberately hid within civilian populations. (a war crime in itself). I defy you to find a single country that would accept that level of aggression without taking action.”

Well that takes the 2015 OLO award for the most willfully ignorant statement of the year. You just plucked those figures from thin air didn't you. It is generally acknowledged that Hamas observed a ceasefire from October 2012 and did not recommence until Israel struck targets within Gaza after the kidnapping of the three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank in 2014. It was only after repeated attacks that Hamas responded so when you say “I defy you to find a single country that would accept that level of aggression without taking action.“ that cuts both ways.

You are rather contemptuous of the truth aren't you.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 31 December 2015 4:11:59 PM
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SR,
Normally I avoid joining in when the left whingers are on an orgy of sanctimonious group self-flagellation, but this time the rank hypocrisy, racism and bigotry needed to be addressed.

Firstly the comparison of Israel with Nazism is wildly inaccurate no matter how many token Jewish activists state it, and no one with the IQ greater than a squirrel would claim otherwise. Secondly this claim is purely for the effect of de humanizing Jews and legitimizing the racism and bigotry leveled at them. You won a gold medal for logical twist and backflip there.

Secondly, any comparison between the Hamas government and the Israeli government shows that Hamas is more vicious and vile on every measure. Having slaughtered hundreds of opposition, gays etc and committed violations against women and children.

Thirdly, it takes two to tango in every conflict, and Hamas has done more than its fair share. The ceasefire since 2012 was punctured sporadically by violent tit for tat attacks on both sides, but the lack of rockets was largely due to the obliteration of Gaza’s tunnels and weapons stock piles in 2012, which Hamas diverted the majority of aid to rebuilding and replenishing.

In your willfully ignorant statement, you “forgot” to mention that the incident that sparked the escalation was not just a simple kidnapping, but the brutal kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli children by Hamas militants, and the retaliation by Israel. The firing of thousands of rockets by Hamas from populated areas, could only have one result, and the deliberate use of schools and hospitals to store weapons and fire them was a war crime and the major factor in the civilian casualties in Gaza.

Hamas’s determination to attack Israel by any means possible is the reason for the blockade (which is not against the Geneva Convention, nor a human rights violation) and their refusal to recognize Israel is the reason why the peace process has stalled.

P.S. In 1979 Israel handed back the Sinai which they had captured from Egypt in 1967 as part of a peace accord, so suck on that.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 1 January 2016 10:06:29 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister;

You wrote;

“the comparison of Israel with Nazism is wildly inaccurate no matter how many token Jewish activists state it, and no one with the IQ greater than a squirrel would claim otherwise.”

Here is part of a letter penned to the New York Times and signed by Jewish identities, the most prominent of whom was Albert Einstein, a man who was offered the presidency of the State of Israel in 1952 by its first president Chaim Weizmann. Weizmann claimed Einstein was “the greatest Jew alive”.

Quote;

“Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

End quote

http://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948

It was these fascists including Begin who eventually won the day and set the path for what Israel has become.

Good luck making the case that Einstein had the IQ of a squirrel.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 1 January 2016 4:15:38 PM
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Dear SteelRedux,

It is sad to discover that even Einstein was fallible like any other human being.

Yes, Begin and his movement spoke big words with great pathos: "Let my right [arm] be forgotten if I forget the left [east-bank] of the Jordan [river]" and "With blood and sweat we will have a race established that is Genius, Generous and Cruel".

Well, the Jordan's Eastern bank was soon forgotten and when Begin died he still had his right arm intact, but they still harmlessly sing those old songs for Auld Lang Syne, just as others sing (without actually meaning it) "Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set".

In real life where actions speak, not words, Begin was moderately genius, quite generous and cruel only towards himself. He was known to be honest and incorruptible as a ruler.

On the other hand, it was Labor, whom Einstein apparently supported, that conducted the terrible 1967 "6-day" war, that decided to keep the territories thus taken and cruelly tore down Arab neighbourhoods in Eastern Jerusalem. It was Labor's corrupt Moshe Dayan who decided to keep the territories so that he can rob their archaeological sites for his private collection. It was Labor who allowed the first Jewish settlements, it was Labor's Rabin (the so-called "peacemaker") who ordered the Israeli army to raid Arab villages and break the arms and legs of all men there, the same Rabin who earlier, in 1948 ordered to shoot down unarmed Jewish swimmers because they belonged to Begin's camp. Israel's Labor were Idiots, Greedy and Cruel!

The one who eventually returned Sinai to Egypt was... Begin!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 1 January 2016 6:02:00 PM
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SR,

I hold Einstein in great regard as a physicist, but as an astute political analyst, not so much. Also, as the letter was dated in 1948 and referred to the Israeli paramilitary forces such as Herut that controlled Israel before the armistice and elections in 1949 and formation of a democratic Israel.

Herut (freedom party) was formed from a nationalist paramilitary unit, with somewhat extreme views that could at that time be compared to fascism, but coming from just fighting a war on many fronts, this was not entirely unexpected. However, the defining difference between Israel and fascism occurred when the extreme parties incl the communists allowed and encouraged free and fair elections and never played a major role in Israel again.

While Einstein being unable to see the future can be forgiven his concerns, those with 20/20 hindsight have no such excuse.

Notably Hamas and the PLO have forgotten to hold elections for a long time, and have spent considerable effort killing their political opponents
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 1 January 2016 7:23:53 PM
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I think that any so-called Christian that blindly supports Israel is a complete moron and at some level a disgrace to their own faith.
Israeli's are mostly non-religious anyway and the ones that do follow Judaism don't believe in Jesus, so they aren't God's people anyway.
But the dumb one-eyed Christians would support Israel even if they are killing other Christians.

Majority of Jews are Ashkenazi whose DNA isn't really true Jewish anyway.
Jewish researchers themselves proved this.
These Kazarian's just took the Jewish religion.

Stupid Christians can't read their bibles without Jewish colored spectacles, and obviously don't pay a lot of attention to it anyway.
http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-9.htm

Israel has been governed since its creation mainly by Polish Communists.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 4 January 2016 4:01:06 AM
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