Suzeonline and Sarah:

Just because you cannot see the guilty feelings and the cry for help from Rosie Batty does not mean that you have to be a trained psychologist to see them. You only need a modicum of emotional intelligence to see what has already been shown many times in the media. You also need an open mind to be able to see it.

It seems that both of you have neither.

Fair dinkum fellas, Rosie Batty lost her son in extremely brutal circumstances. Let's have a bit of decorum eh?

Sarah, the problem with the domestic violence legislation is that it creates a positive feedback mechanism for both complainants and perpetrators. For a woman who is unhappy in her relationship it provides a simple mechanism to lever her partner away with no cost to her. For a violent person, especially a violent man, it may act to create a situation in which he feels that acting or not acting violently will lead to the same consequence, leading to more or worse actual violence than a more nuanced approach might.

Unfortunately, it's a very good example of a law made with good intentions that creates bad outcomes, especially when definitions are continually broadened so that almost anything at all can be called violence.

We can do better than that.

Wolly B

I have been thinking about our different views about whether the changes in attitudes and laws towards domestic violence are recent or not recent.

Only a generation ago (i.e. my mother’s generation), there were no laws to protect women (and men) from abusive relationships.

When I was a teenager, I remember my mother supporting some friends who were being abused by their husbands. I remember one woman in particular. She was married to a very respectable doctor who was charming to the outside world, but abusive (both verbally and physically) in the home. This was considered a private issue. My mother supported her – drove her to the hospital on several occasions. At no stage did any doctor or nurse suggest calling the police. This woman committed suicide in 1985.

Craig Minns

The history of how domestic violence shifted from a domestic issue last century to a public and criminal offense this century is interesting. Attitudes and laws did not simply change overnight. There was a lot of lobbying, petitions, parliamentary enquiries, commissions etc. Last century, many women worked tirelessly to ensure domestic violence became a public issue, and laws were introduced to make intimate partner violence a crime. Even after legislation was introduced, it took time for the police force to change their practice.

The recent discussion suggests that there are some men on the OLO forum who agree that the current legislation is inadequate. If the current legislation is inadequate, there needs to be further lobbying. In a democracy, legislation only improves if people get involved by contacting their local MPs, petitioning etc.

Roscop

I do not know how many restraining orders arising out of “ex parte” court hearings and with the purpose of separating a parent from his/her children were served on respondents in the state of Victoria in the previous calendar year. I am sure such data is available, but I do not know how to access it. Perhaps you know someone who is a lawyer? They may know. Or perhaps someone else who is reading this thread may be able to direct you in the right direction?

Dr Russell, the problem is that to a very large extent DV is not treated as a criminal offence, but as a relationship management tool. For acts of violence which are actually criminal, assault and other criminal laws apply, with the relevant onus and standard of proof. However, a DVO/AVO can and will be issued on the basis that it is asked for, or simply because the police have been brought in as the "nuclear option" during what might otherwise be a relatively simple and mutual disagreement between two people that is not in any way either violent or likely to become violent.

As a result, the law and the respect for the law has been debased.

This is most particularly a problem that has been caused by a narrow feminist analysis of relationship dynamics as power struggles.

What is most disturbing about this is that the people who are most affected by genuine violence - especially Aboriginal communities and other communities in which poverty is endemic - are barely helped by such measures. Perpetrators with little to lose don't care about being locked up, or don't think about it until it's too late. On the other hand, middle class communities in which such violence is barely existent are seeing families torn apart and trust destroyed.

It is not working. It needs to be changed. More of the same is not good enough.

Craig Minns

I have no personal experience with intimate partner violence but I am surprised that DVO/AVO can and will be issued on the basis that it is asked for. Aren't people required to go to a Magistrates Court and that the Magistrate determines whether or not the request for a DVO/AVO is warranted?

I'm quite sure DVO/AVOs were not intended to be used to settle relatively simple and mutual disagreement between two people. These types of relationship difficulties are more appropriately dealt with by relationship counsellors.

If DVO/AVOs are in fact being used to settle relatively simple and mutual disagreement between two people, it seems to me that some Magistrates are not doing their job responsibly.