Sarah:
You have shot yourself in the foot once too often now. You have no credibility when talking about issues of aggression and equality. You say one thing and behave in a completely opposite way.

You cannot simply keep calling people back to the 'discussion' and ignore the hypocrisy in your own behaviour and expect anyone to take you seriously.

There is no point in discussing issues with you until you become aware of your own desire to hurt people.

Phanto

You say I hurt people.

It is not my intention to hurt people.

I am genuinely interested to know how you think I hurt people, who you think I have hurt and when I did this.

Phanto I doubt it's a desire to hurt people. I do think there is a substantial level of blindness to the offensive nature of many feminist beliefs about men resulting from being heavily immersed in that world. I think there is also a blindness to the degree of double standard in seemingly not noticing the nasty nature of Killarney's comments about male posters while calling out male aggression.

On the other hand I'm inclined to ignore the nastiness of some male posters because there does not seem to be much that can be done about it, perhaps the same approach but that's not the impression I've had.

Sarah when dane asked “Why do you feminists find it so hard to stick to the facts?” he is propbaly reflecting on long experience dealing with feminist posters on OLO and the constantly moving goal posts, the wordplays used to twist meanings, the claims that when refuted with evidence are either dismissed based on personal views or a generalised claim that something is discredited (eg CTS) without the integrity to back those claims. You may have copped more ire than has been warranted but it's coming on the back of a long history of highly sexist, anti-male posting by various feminists over the years and repeating some of the same mantra's.

There does seem to be a belief by feminists that they should be able to say whatever they like about men and masculinity but if feminism is attacked or the behaviour of feminist posters is criticised then it's male aggressiveness and demonstration of contempt for women. All to often massive double standards at play.

R0bert

Robert:

I don’t think there is such a thing as an offensive belief but there certainly is offensive behaviour. I think feminists are entitled to any belief they like. If they express those beliefs in a public forum they must be prepared to back them up with reason and logic. The problem is that when they are not successful with reason and logic they can become aggressive. They hope to change society by intimidation. They try to put men down in the hope that men will go away quietly and then they will have the control they desire.

Men do exactly the same thing. I am prepared to listen to a reasoned argument but some people do not like having to use reason because they know that their arguments are not reasonable and they become exposed. This is where they resort to aggression. They want to hurt people who do not simply let them have their way. It often takes a bit of discussion before such aggression comes to the surface but it is a sure sign of the poverty of their arguments.

There is no point in discussing something with someone who quite clearly has reached the point where they are resorting to aggression. If they own their aggression and apologise then maybe the discussion can resume on a reasonable basis but if they continually deny that aggression or try to rationalise it away then in my opinion they do not warrant being listened to until they change their behaviour.

phanto that was well put. Undecided about the offensive belief thing, that probably rides on how the word offensive is thought of.

There are some things deeply wrong with the core assumptions of feminism about the genders that create a very one sided view of human history and in particular western culture. As to the point about the expression of those beliefs being offensive, I'd put them in the same category as racist statements making differences about race while ignoring all the other relevant factors. We can choose to take offence or not but we are certainly in a good position to challenge such views.

R0bert

>I have much more respect for someone who shows that they understand
> what I say but disrespectfully tells me that I'm talking nonsense,
> than for someone who twists my words and then politely and calmly
>points out the fallacies of my 'non-argument'.
Posted by Killarney, Sunday, 10 May 2015 5:28:32 PM

>I have noticed how several commenters in this forum twist your
> comments, and then insult you by responding to an argument that you
> did not make. I gather you have been on OLO for some time, and I
> admire your resilience for staying engaged.

Wherever possible, I now try not to withdraw, to stay calm and stay on message. Normally, I don't have much success but on this occasion, I seem to have had some

>I too respect people who show they understand my argument and then
>contest it
Posted by Sarah Russell, Monday, 11 May 2015 9:59:37 AM

Now I assume that both of you are intelligent enough to be familiar with the theory of communication.

To give you an example the phrase;

"Give me a call sometime.", has I believe around a 150 meanings.

So what you or I write depends on how the meaning of what is written is taken. So what I mean maybe totally different to what you interpret.

Now most of us males are handicapped in being articulate, when compared to the female gender and are well and truly outclassed and outmaneuvered when engaging in verbal tousles with your members of your gender.

I am not terribly good at picking up covert meanings, unless someone points it out to me.