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The Forum > Article Comments > A failure of moral leadership > Comments

A failure of moral leadership : Comments

By Neil Francis, published 28/11/2014

Victoria's political leaders look the other way on voluntary euthanasia law reform leading up to Saturday's vote.

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I tend to disagree, with the real failure being to improve general well-being; so these extreme measures, or officially sanctioned murder, are just not needed, nor on the horizon!
And that's possible, if we change the focus on quantity, and instead focus on quality/preventive medicine.
Every day we discover something new which adds to the quality of a natural life, with something as simple as abalone blood, being touted as possible prevention for the herpes virus?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 28 November 2014 10:30:14 AM
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I have periods of a week or more, where the pain is pretty unrelenting. Getting to sleep can be a major problem.

Nothing in the way of pills helps at all, & the injection of the only thing that really helps means I am not allowed to drive home. A bit of a catch 22 problem.

Sitting in a kitchen chair is usually good, & driving 2 of my cars is also good, but driving other cars, or riding as a passenger is really bad. It took a week for the pain to subside after 3 hours, [1.5 each way with a 2 hours stop in between], in my daughters new car.

Being a bit of a coward, I am not that good at handling pain. I think I am lined up for a violent death somewhat before really necessary, when I near the point where I will not be able to do it for myself. I do wonder about which option would be less traumatic for the family. I won't be shooting myself in that kitchen chair for example.

For me the availability of assisted euthanasia would be a godsend.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 28 November 2014 11:25:32 AM
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People like Rhosty need to spend some time looking after a terminally loved one before they voice any such opinions on the matter.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Friday, 28 November 2014 12:57:27 PM
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HASBEEN...

Mate, I had no idea that you were afflicted by this unbearable pain ? Is it age related or a result of trauma(s) ? None of my bloody business for sure ? This euthanasia debate really troubles me ? Particularly when I witness 'qualified medical practitioners' spend all their time attempting to find better, more covert methodologies, in order to enable people to more effectively kill themselves.

Lets extend euthanasia 'benefits' to those with chronic depression ? Or youths who feel absolutely bereft of ever finding employment after several years on unemployment welfare. What about 'State Sanctioned Euthanasia' for old people ? Those unable to care for themselves, relying on very expensive 'high end' care ? A Court could be convened, in order to issue a Writ allowing the State to effectively put the elderly person to sleep ?

I suppose if an individual is deemed terminal, really terminal and the Medico's have abandoned all hope for any sort of recovery, well I'm still not entirely comfortable with it, despite the many academic arguments to the contrary ? Interestingly, when a medical Doctor first qualifies, apart from the normal Hippocratic oath, there's another tenet they must observe in their professional activity ?

'...First, do no harm...' ?

Surely, with the vast suite of analgesia they have available, they can render a person pain free, even in the worst case of advanced terminal cancer ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 28 November 2014 2:11:25 PM
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Dear Rhrosty,

You used the term "officially sanctioned murder", but first, murder, at least in the biblical sense from which these Western ideas and laws are derived, only refers to the killing against one's will; and second, failing to forbid/punish-for some act does not amount to sanctioning it.

The famous injunction in the ten commandments, is "thou shalt not murder": "Lo Tirtsach" in the original Hebrew, using the root-verb R.TS.CH. Other killings, either by accident, in war, or by a court-of-law, use the root-verb H.R.G., but most interestingly is that both assisted suicides (the second having been faked and never actually occured, but that's beside), described in Judges 9:54, and 2-Samuel 1:9-10, use the word "deathen" instead, which is lost in the English translation:

1. "and he quickly called the youth, the carrier of his gear, and told him: unsheath your sword and deathen me, lest others say "a woman killed him"".
2. "and he told me, please stand over me and deathen me, for though I had the stroke yet my spirit remains in me, so I stood over him and deathened him..."

There is nothing immoral about helping another to commit suicide. Yes, even [unassisted] suicide is sinful on different (and less severe) grounds, but in this case the sin is of the person being helped to die rather of the one helping them.

Sin (in which you may not believe) or otherwise, moral or otherwise, it is not government's role to promote morality or sainthood: the only legitimate role of government is to protect and keep the peace of those who willingly want its protection.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 28 November 2014 6:04:06 PM
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It's why they chucked me out of the navy o sung wu, a back injury in a bit of a crash means a couple of discs go out easily, pinching nerves, producing sciatic & other pain. Not really fixable back then, & probably still not.

They told me I would be a cripple at 40. I beat them by 30 years, & it is not all that bad most of the time really. I have one of those back swing machines. Hanging upside down, & doing sit ups always used to cure it for long periods, as it strengthened the right muscles, & opened the discs. Now that inflames the clapped out old knees. It is kind of funny, if you keep your sense of humour. You can at least decide what is going to hurt.

Importantly, the ergonomics of my Triumph TR7 mean I can drive it a thousand kilometres without a problem, & walk a little the next day. I can even drive the Honda S2000 4 or 5 hundred kilometres too, although more than that in it tends to inflame the carpal tunnel syndrome.

Not complaining mate. I've worked this body pretty hard, & it's pretty worn out. It's been a hell of a ride, & I wouldn't change a thing, but I would just like the option of getting out of it, if it becomes too hard to handle.

I know my kids would help if I asked, but I don't want to stuff their lives by having them break the law.

I'd prefer go out quietly, rather than drive one of my cars off a cliff or into a tree, but the do-gooder laws may force that upon me
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 28 November 2014 6:20:24 PM
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