I just don't buy this do nothing argument, but particularly when other nations are aiming at carbon neutral economies!
Which will lead no doubt to carbon tariffs to moderate trade in favor of those who lower their emissions!
We can do that, and in a way that only benefits an energy dependent economy.

Step one, very local micro-grids, that reduce or eliminate transmission line losses, [around 50%,] thereby lowering the carbon emission that creates them!

Step two, feed those grids with either cheaper than coal, carbon negative thorium power; or that created by the creation and conversion of endlessly sustainable biogas.

Mass produced Thorium reactors, connected to micro grids, will halve the cost of industrial power, but especially, if retained in public ownership.

And the introduction of biogas, powering ceramic fuel cells; could lower domestic power bills by at least 75%!

We just don't need to have this fundamentally useless or over the top/endless debate/pernicious prevarication; but just crack on using our own resources and innovation; to create all the considerable economic advantages right here.

Even where that causes quite a conundrum for the very influential and wealthy coal industry; and or, their political backers/advocates!?
To borrow a phrase; It's the economy stupid!
Rhrosty.

Thanks Patrick, it is nice to occasionally read the voice of reason.

It also proves that even Greenpeace people can finally grow up, & become sensible human beings, rather than irrational activists.

It is true that transmission losses are a factor (50%? ok - let's take that for the sake of argument). However, you have to consider the whole chain to your outlet. There's no point using a local microgrid that loses 10% if you are powering it with a diesel generator. The reason that we use large scale electricity generation transmission is first, large turbines are incredibly efficient, and second how else are you going to power a factory? Certainly not with solar cells or local wind power.

Perhaps a more important point that you miss is this: local micro grids mean that the rich get electricity and the poor get none. Whatever the faults of our roads, telecommunications, power transmission and water/sewerage networks, there's surely no denying their egalitarian effects. It's something to be examined.

Are "micro networks" merely another example of nicely well-off baby-boomers forgetting that some people are poor?

oh dear another anti-science opinion piece on OLO. Follow the money is the easiest reply.

'morning Patrick,

Many thanks for posting your article on OLO. As a founder of Greenpeace your article is no doubt controversial for many of the true believers. As you will observe, the responses will be a mixed bag. Some will cling to the "science", some will post juvenile rhetoric and others will simply hug their alarmism like a comfort blanket.

For those who denigrate your distinguished career it is simply evidence of closed minds and just how effective political ideology can be.

The coverage and interviews by "their" ABC were notable in their absence. Perhaps you could visit Australia again after the Paris round of climate talks to explain to the alarmists just how spiffingly well it all went.

Thanks again for your article.

Micro-grids just don't need to exclude anyone! All that is required to provide base load power is via a feed in system to already existing local substations/transformers.
The take up of homemade biogas, as a domestic power source; would mean, nobody need miss out!

And why in heaven's name, would anyone prefer diesels, when super silent ceramic fuel cells cost less, and given solid state technology, far more reliably than the odd diesel engine/blatant red herring.

Almost every family produces enough bio waste, which if converted to energy; as outlined, to not only power their domiciles 24/7, but with a carbon neutral ceramic fuel cell installed, create around a 50% salable surplus.

Thorium, which we have enough of to power the world for 700 years, or if reserved for us exclusively; our own industries for thousands!
Could be sited exactly where the power is going to be used.
Military bases, industrial estates and rapid rail etc.

It's all affordable, if we but eliminate all current tax avoidance.
Moreover, small transportable reactors, which can be trucked on site; and producing power within days; means far fewer missing out.
Mainly because it's currently not economical to hook them up to the national grid.

And wouldn't you know it, these are the poorest most disadvantaged communities in the land; or completely reliant on diesel engines, and increasingly expensive diesel.

Vested interest will always argue for the current status quo; and or, shed shiploads of crocodile tears for the poor or underprivileged.
Many of who are currently denied access to the grid and all that goes with it!

Or are following Britain's example, where a million consumers, are no longer able to afford to buy reticulated energy!
No hot water, no winter heating, fridges, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, or summer cooling etc.

And all happening as literally trillions of tons of bio waste are routinely flushed out to sea!

So much for manifestly manufactured concern for the poor; or should that read, currently captive energy market!?
Rhrosty.

How cruel, Patrick!

Why do you want so many people to lose their jobs?

Currently, any idiot can obtain generous research grants by instead of claiming that they want to study the breeding habits of the Isabelline Wheatear (a rare bird), claiming that they want to study the effect of global warming on the breeding habits of Isabelline Wheatear.

Dear spindoc,

Oh Lordy Lordy.

This man is a complete sell out but if you want to kiss him where the sun don't shine then be my guest, but do the rest of us a favour an don't repeat the lie that this man is a co-founder of Green Peace because it is demonstrably false.

Here is his application to join an organisation he apparently co-founded.
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/usa/binaries/2008/12/patrick-moore-s-application-le.pdf

What a crock.

This bloke continues with this deception purely for the supposed credence it gives him allowing him to charge more for his paid lobbying efforts on behalf of companies like Asian Pulp & Paper, B.C. Hazardous Waste Management Corporation, Canadian Pulp and Paper Association, Westcoast Energy and BC Gas, BHP Minerals (Canada), Canadian Mining Association and the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada, National Association of Forest Industries (Australia), and Ipex – Canada's largest PVC manufacturer.

Yet you find him an eminently credible individual? Actually that isn't all that surprising.

SteeleRedux,

Here's a more comprehensive bio of Patrick Moore...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_Moore

"Patrick Moore is an AGW denier and corporate shill. Moore works for the Nuclear Energy Institute front group, and the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. He has worked for the mining industry, the logging industry, PVC manufacturers, the nuclear industry and has worked in defence of biotechnology.

Although Moore was once (1981, 1986) a leading figure with Greenpeace Canada and subsequently with Greenpeace International, in 2008 Greenpeace issued a statement distancing itself from Moore, saying he "exploits long gone ties with Greenpeace to sell himself as a speaker and pro-corporate spokesperson, usually taking positions that Greenpeace opposes."

Nuff said...

‘morning Patrick,

I do hope you are following this thread as I wish to apologize.

I used your article to cast burley upon the water to see what jumped up to take the bait. In doing so I seem to have trawled up a number of predictable bottom feeders.

Firstly we have the all the solutions to the non-existent, de-carbonization problem and that offensive nuclear power solution.

I do quite like the idea of thorium powered handbags and the “micro grids” that can be created by hooking them up wherever one happens to be? I guess this explains the 15 minute delay between a woman getting into her car and actually driving off, looking for that damn thorium reactor somewhere in the bottom of the handbag!

I prefer the Nuclear Powered Range Rover myself. It runs for 1,000 years without refuelling and can be plugged into the mains when you get home to power a small city.

Hey Ho, wacky is what wacky does.

More importantly we have the Steel reflux and Madam Poirot tag team of Daleks. Exterminate! Exterminate!

The polarized us-versus-them mentality, exalted self status with a special mission to save the planet, attack Independent Thought, Motive Questioning- When sound evidence is presented, question the motivation of the presenter, pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world, shooting the messenger, obsessiveness regarding the “their” orthodoxy, opposer warnings, "Satan" will eat your babies if you believe this man, denigration and character assignation and of course the mandatory response to critical thinking, name calling.

Lets have a quick review of the Daleks responses?

You are a “complete sell out”. That is because you were once perceived to be “of the faith”. You are now a liar, fraud, guilty of deception, beholding to “big something”, a “denier”, your bio is a “crock” and you are a corporate shill.

The responses of the Daleks get 12 out of 12 “ticks” against the set criteria and yet incredibly, not one single one of them addressed any content from your article. Odd that?

I love when a plan comes together.

Exterminate! Exterminate!

Dear spindoc,

You said;

“I used your article to cast burley upon the water to see what jumped up to take the bait. In doing so I seem to have trawled up a number of predictable bottom feeders.”

Mate! You have used that sort of line so many times when you have been given a hiding that it has definitely lost it's currency, and the rest sounds very much like defensive waffling.

There was a very simple matter I took you to task on was Patrick Moore a founding member of Green Peace or not? Yet I have not received an answer. Something a little more succinct than your last post would be desirable.

You are a bit selective with your info on Patrick Moore, Poirot,

Wiki is much more extensive. Patrick is a NO-NONSENSE type of guy and a fricken founder of Greenpeace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_%28environmentalist%29#After_Greenpeace

Greenpeace:
According to Greenpeace: How a Group of Ecologists, Journalists, and Visionaries Changed the World by Rex Wyler, the Don't Make a Wave Committee was formed in January 1970 by Dorothy and Irving Stowe, Ben Metcalfe, Marie and Jim Bohlen, Paul Cote, and Bob Hunter and incorporated in October 1970.[7] The Committee had formed to plan opposition to the testing of a one megaton hydrogen bomb in 1969 by the United States Atomic Energy Commission on Amchitka Island in the Aleutians. Moore joined the committee in 1971 and, as Greenpeace co-founder Bob Hunter wrote, “Moore was quickly accepted into the inner circle on the basis of his scientific background, his reputation [as an environmental activist], and his ability to inject practical, NO-NONSENSE insights into the discussions.”

He was even on the Rainbow Warrior and was an environmental activist from 1971 to 1986 for God's sake.

And why would did he become disillusioned with Greenpeace?

“In 2005, Moore criticized what he saw as scare tactics and disinformation employed by some within the environmental movement, saying that the environmental movement "abandoned science and logic in favor of emotion and sensationalism."

“He commented that he had left Greenpeace because it "took a sharp turn to the POLITICAL LEFTl" and "evolved into an organization of extremism and politically motivated agendas".

I heard of this guy years ago and glad he has made it here and disiphering all the LEFTIST PROPAGANDA.

SteelFlux, you are a lefty deviant.

“A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
― Frank Zappa

Constance,

This article is a pile of garbage.

".... Moore works for the Nuclear Energy Institute front group, and the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. He has worked for the mining industry, the logging industry, PVC manufacturers, the nuclear industry and has worked in defence of biotechnology."

.........

"SteelFlux, you are a lefty deviant."

Always fascinating how people who demonstrate very little substance get their jollies from calling fellow posters names.

You're a great example of that particular brand of vacuous belligerence, Constance.

Cheers

Constance, he was NOT one of the founders of Greenpeace, and he may have had a no nonsense approach a few years back, bu hes certainly making up for it now!

There are valid criticisms of Greenpeace, but he hasn't made them.
There are sensible ex-environmentalists, but he isn't one of them.

________________________________________________________________________

Rhosty, why are you again repeating the lie that transmission line losses are around 50%?

Dear Constance,

'Deviant Leftie' is an interesting label but I'm not sure why you would use it when defending Mr Moore. What I have taken exception to is Moore claiming he was a founding member of Green Peace when he patently not, and nothing you have offered proves otherwise. Further I have taken exception to the 'founding member' claim being repeated on OLO both in the author's bio and by spindoc.

If valuing facts and challenging false claims makes me a 'deviant leftie' in your eyes then I suppose I have earned it. But I would suggest that by persisting in his 'founding member' lie Mr Moore is so obviously deviating from the truth that he is a far more worthy recipient of at least the first half of said title.

It is a pleasure to read an article which gives an honest appraisal of the science of climate change. The ridiculous attempt to demonise a minor greenhouse gas, which is essential to all life on earth has been one of the more disgraceful features of the climate change fraud.

The science-deniers are out in force, attacking the author with irrelevant criticism, of a personal nature, because they have no answer to the science. Ad hominem is the constant resort of those with no valid comment on the science which makes their dishonest position on climate change untenable.

The hound, Redux and Poirot are determined to make fools of themselves, yet again.

Yer a hoot Leo!

In a post devoid of any "valid comment on the science" - he says:

"....Ad hominem is the constant resort of those with no valid comment on the science..."

Then he follows that up with a brief ad hominem.:

"The hound, Redux and Poirot are determined to make fools of themselves, yet again."

Lulz....