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The Forum > Article Comments > We need more carbon dioxide, not less > Comments

We need more carbon dioxide, not less : Comments

By Patrick Moore, published 26/11/2014

If this trend had continued, CO2 would have become too low to support life on Earth.

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I just don't buy this do nothing argument, but particularly when other nations are aiming at carbon neutral economies!
Which will lead no doubt to carbon tariffs to moderate trade in favor of those who lower their emissions!
We can do that, and in a way that only benefits an energy dependent economy.

Step one, very local micro-grids, that reduce or eliminate transmission line losses, [around 50%,] thereby lowering the carbon emission that creates them!

Step two, feed those grids with either cheaper than coal, carbon negative thorium power; or that created by the creation and conversion of endlessly sustainable biogas.

Mass produced Thorium reactors, connected to micro grids, will halve the cost of industrial power, but especially, if retained in public ownership.

And the introduction of biogas, powering ceramic fuel cells; could lower domestic power bills by at least 75%!

We just don't need to have this fundamentally useless or over the top/endless debate/pernicious prevarication; but just crack on using our own resources and innovation; to create all the considerable economic advantages right here.

Even where that causes quite a conundrum for the very influential and wealthy coal industry; and or, their political backers/advocates!?
To borrow a phrase; It's the economy stupid!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:18:58 AM
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Thanks Patrick, it is nice to occasionally read the voice of reason.

It also proves that even Greenpeace people can finally grow up, & become sensible human beings, rather than irrational activists.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 11:46:22 AM
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It is true that transmission losses are a factor (50%? ok - let's take that for the sake of argument). However, you have to consider the whole chain to your outlet. There's no point using a local microgrid that loses 10% if you are powering it with a diesel generator. The reason that we use large scale electricity generation transmission is first, large turbines are incredibly efficient, and second how else are you going to power a factory? Certainly not with solar cells or local wind power.

Perhaps a more important point that you miss is this: local micro grids mean that the rich get electricity and the poor get none. Whatever the faults of our roads, telecommunications, power transmission and water/sewerage networks, there's surely no denying their egalitarian effects. It's something to be examined.

Are "micro networks" merely another example of nicely well-off baby-boomers forgetting that some people are poor?
Posted by PaulMurrayCbr, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 12:04:24 PM
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oh dear another anti-science opinion piece on OLO. Follow the money is the easiest reply.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 12:40:21 PM
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'morning Patrick,

Many thanks for posting your article on OLO. As a founder of Greenpeace your article is no doubt controversial for many of the true believers. As you will observe, the responses will be a mixed bag. Some will cling to the "science", some will post juvenile rhetoric and others will simply hug their alarmism like a comfort blanket.

For those who denigrate your distinguished career it is simply evidence of closed minds and just how effective political ideology can be.

The coverage and interviews by "their" ABC were notable in their absence. Perhaps you could visit Australia again after the Paris round of climate talks to explain to the alarmists just how spiffingly well it all went.

Thanks again for your article.
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 3:54:21 PM
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Micro-grids just don't need to exclude anyone! All that is required to provide base load power is via a feed in system to already existing local substations/transformers.
The take up of homemade biogas, as a domestic power source; would mean, nobody need miss out!

And why in heaven's name, would anyone prefer diesels, when super silent ceramic fuel cells cost less, and given solid state technology, far more reliably than the odd diesel engine/blatant red herring.

Almost every family produces enough bio waste, which if converted to energy; as outlined, to not only power their domiciles 24/7, but with a carbon neutral ceramic fuel cell installed, create around a 50% salable surplus.

Thorium, which we have enough of to power the world for 700 years, or if reserved for us exclusively; our own industries for thousands!
Could be sited exactly where the power is going to be used.
Military bases, industrial estates and rapid rail etc.

It's all affordable, if we but eliminate all current tax avoidance.
Moreover, small transportable reactors, which can be trucked on site; and producing power within days; means far fewer missing out.
Mainly because it's currently not economical to hook them up to the national grid.

And wouldn't you know it, these are the poorest most disadvantaged communities in the land; or completely reliant on diesel engines, and increasingly expensive diesel.

Vested interest will always argue for the current status quo; and or, shed shiploads of crocodile tears for the poor or underprivileged.
Many of who are currently denied access to the grid and all that goes with it!

Or are following Britain's example, where a million consumers, are no longer able to afford to buy reticulated energy!
No hot water, no winter heating, fridges, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, or summer cooling etc.

And all happening as literally trillions of tons of bio waste are routinely flushed out to sea!

So much for manifestly manufactured concern for the poor; or should that read, currently captive energy market!?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 5:50:59 PM
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