Yuyustu

"we should not be responsible for the acts of nature" Thus there is no need for the government to enforce seatbelts in cars, supervise planning to prevent floods etc

Of course the government needs to take action to prevent people drowning. It has done so spectacularly.

Toby,
I suggest you carefully look into history.
Granted this is a cut and paste but let us start by the name of our mathematics, "arabic"
Algebra (from Arabic al-jebr meaning "reunion of broken parts"[1]) is one of the broad parts of mathematics, together with number theory, geometry and analysis. In its most general form algebra is the study of symbols and the rules for manipulating symbols and is a unifying thread of all of mathematics. As such, it includes everything from elementary equation solving to the study of abstractions such as groups, rings, and fields. The more basic parts of algebra are called elementary algebra, the more abstract parts are called abstract algebra or modern algebra. Elementary algebra is essential for any study of mathematics, science, or engineering, as well as such applications as medicine and economics. Abstract algebra is a major area in advanced mathematics, studied primarily by professional mathematicians. Much early work in algebra, as the Arabic origin of its name suggests, was done in the Near East, by such mathematicians as Omar Khayyam (1048-1131).
The roots of Islamic science drew primarily upon Arab, Persian, Indian and Greek learning. The extent of Islamic scientific achievement is not as yet fully understood, but it is extremely vast.
These achievements encompass a wide range of subject areas; most notably
Mathematics
Astronomy
Medicine
Other notable areas, and specialized subjects, of scientific inquiry include
Physics
Alchemy and chemistry
Cosmology
Ophthalmology
Geography and cartography
Sociology
Psychology
It is a pity they could not get their theocracy under control as their existence and preservation of knowledge did more to get the western world moving in the direction of reason and scientific advancement then did the cutthroats that ran the christian churches. you would have to read some pretty fat books and have an attitude that is not based on race or nationality but on achievement before you would notice that.

The Arab Golden Period was from 1000 to 1300 from there it's been all down hill. The Mullars took over around 1300 & discouraged all learning. They also had a book burning. The period of Destruction seems to happen around 300 years after the start of a new movement. It also seems to last around 1000 year so Islam has a few years to go before their enlightenment. They initially built on the knowledge of the Greeks & Romans for most things, but Algebra comes from India.

While they are in their most dangerous period they should be shunned by the rest of Humanity, including us. Any Islamists in the West Must be returned to the Middle East, for Humanities safety.

Dear Bjelly,

There is absolutely nothing wrong if you, in combination with others that share your beliefs, form a life-saving force to help people in distress - in fact, God bless you for that. However, you are not obliged to do it and the fact that though not obliged you do it anyway, allows the goodness of your heart to shine!

If OTOH you only save others because that is the law, then you are not a good person, but a common coward.

You are most welcome to save the lives of strangers, but you better do it wisely and in this particular case you should ask yourself whether this particular line-of-action of patrolling near the shores of Indonesia indeed saves lives - or causes even more deaths by drowning: had the refugees known that nobody is going to rescue them, then they wouldn't go out to sea in the first place in leaky boats, so more lives would be saved, as well as preventing the horrors that are now occurring in offshore detention.

The nation-state is illegitimate because it is a non-voluntary body. Yes, humans are communal, but it should be our own choice as to which community(s), big or small, we wish to belong to. It is wrong to force us to be members of a particular community for no other reason than we happen to live in a particular location. Even if I happen to generally favour the community around me, it would be immoral for me to participate or cooperate with it so long as I know that it forces itself on others against their will.

Dear SM,

The government has every right to say: "Look, if you don't wear a seatbelt, then you won't receive free medical assistance if you are injured in a road-accident" and "If you build your house too close to the river, then don't expect us to come and help if it's flooded". What it has absolutely no right, is to lock you up in jail should you choose to ignore their advice.

Toby O'Brian has written a dishonest article in which he justifies his humanitarian ideals in terms of economics, which he knows to be false. If you present an argument which any impartial observer can see is dishonest, Toby, you destroy your credibility straight away.

You know that the costs of keeping illegal immigrants on Pacific islands is far less than having the entire third world arrive on Australia's doorstep and demand directions to the closest Centrelink office. But for some reason, you pretend otherwise. You reject the idea that your first allegiance is supposed to be towards the welfare of your own people.

Whenever somebody writes a deliberately false argument, then I presume that they have other agendas, usually their own self interest.

Who's people do you identify with, Toby, and what is your self interest?

With an Irish name, perhaps you don't see yourself as an Australian anyway and have no allegiance to Australia and it's people? Perhaps you see yourself more as a Catholic? Is your first allegiance to your religion? Do you see going into bat for generally superstitious third worlder's as a way of getting converts to your paedophile protecting religion? Perhaps you think you will make it into heaven if you stick up for third worlder's? Perhaps you are a lawyer touting for business? A Labor politician seeking the ethnic vote? A trendy lefty displaying his presumed moral superiority over the detested bogans and bourgiouse?

Whatever. But if you refuse to acknowledge the damage to your own community that would ensue from the unrestricted immigration of millions of impoverished third worlder's, then your motive seems suspect. You seem to be a person who put his religions self interest, his afterlife's self interest, his party's self interest, his professions self interest, or his his self esteem, over that of the collective welfare of the Australian people.

Dear LEGO,

<<having the entire third world arrive on Australia's doorstep and demand directions to the closest Centrelink office>>

The author never mentioned that option, nor would I.

Who said that not being physically stopped from reaching the physical shores of the continent Australia is equivalent to being accepted into the Australian society and all its benefits?

Alternately, they could all come if they want, but be treated as animals, roaming the outback, either making a frugal subsistence or dying of hunger and thirst; or good people of Australia could give them food and shelter - not the taxpayer, perhaps O'brien himself; perhaps people would adopt them as pets; or they could perhaps be used as farm-animals, given food and shelter for a day's hard-labour, then slaughtered and eaten when they can no longer work.

Under these conditions, plus the risk of drowning during the long ocean-journey, it's unlikely that the entire third world would still want to come.

The problem is not the refugees - the problem is that Australia have signed all these stupid international treaties which prevent it from acting either rationally or humanely. It is both irrational and inhumane to treat people worse than animals: at least treat them like you would treat an animal.