Squeers
"Yet it is true that certain patterns of behaviour remain highly predictable and gendered. Male violence for instance.. I don't suppose you'd argue with that?" No I don't argue with that. We are discussing what is the root of this and how it harms everyone.

"Emotional maturity" is a construct which suggests the healthy couple operates somehow above the flux," No. It means people have learned about their emotions and don't lash out with them.

"Women stereotypically trope with emotion, and men with "reason". This is not a qualitative, sexist or insistent observation, and if it is true for any statistically significant number, as I suggest it is, it is more than likely conditioned behaviour. Ergo it doesn't have to be construed as an insult to women, but more evidence of her oppression."
It comes across to me as the more powerful in the relationship dismissing the concerns of the other.

In the building industry I had to deal with a builder who used tantrums to try and get me to authorise payments. I saw the way one man manipulated others, both his peers and his superiors.

I also witnessed mature and supportive and quietly gallant and honourable actions by my male peers and bosses. What this is all about is acknowledging we are all human. We have different characters, life experiences and a range of 'societies' we inhabit. It is up to all of us to make our lives fair and respectful to ourselves, the people that depend on us and to others as a whole.

Lillian:

"Forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems that both of you had difficult childhoods and I wonder if this could be part of why you reacted like this."

I don't think an emotionally intelligent person would apologise for their opinion. They would have a firm understanding of their rights which include the right to express one's opinion. They would also know that opinions cannot really hurt anyone and so there is nothing to be forgiven for.

I do not think you really feel guilt and yet you speak as if you do. That is an example of not being aware of your own feelings which is what you say emotional intelligence is.

It is hard to give much credence to your theories if you do not understand something as basic as the feeling of guilt. It seems to me that you are engaging in an intellectual discussion but do not accept your own conclusions.

Hi Phanto
It wasn't guilt but consideration. I don't like making assumptions. However I do find your continued negative response interesting.

Have a look at this article on what happens to a society that crushes empathy (as neo-liberalism does):
https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2014/august/1406815200/linda-jaivin/rising-tide-narcissism?utm_content=buffer8a3cf&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Editorial+Teasers

"Among the defining traits of a narcissistic personality disorder is a lack of empathy."

"Yet narcissism is a recognised personality disorder with a spectrum that includes the pathological. Manne, reviewing the work of academic researchers, psychologists and others, argues that, moral panic aside, narcissism is genuinely on the rise in Australia and elsewhere. What’s more, it is having a toxic effect on community, culture, politics, the economy and even the environment. It is implicated in myriad acts of violence from road rage and sexual assault to politically motivated mass murder. According to Manne, the prevailing ideology of neoliberalism feeds the culture of narcissism and is in turn nourished by it, with global consequences."

Lillian:

“It wasn't guilt but consideration. I don't like making assumptions. However I do find your continued negative response interesting.”

What do you need to consider? I can’t speak for Poirot but there is no way that any of your opinions could hurt me – as I said they are simply opinions. There is nothing you need to be considerate about. What is wrong with making assumptions – they are also only opinions.

Just because I do not agree with you does not mean that I am negative and you are positive. It simply means we disagree.

I do not think the problem of men’s violence has anything to do with empathy. You can be the most empathetic person in the world and still give way to violence. You cannot teach empathy to children and hope they will grow up as non-violent adults. Empathy is not an idea that you have to grasp mentally and then once you have it in your head you automatically go on to behave empathetically. There are extremely empathetic people in the world who would not even know how to spell the word. That is because it is a naturally occurring phenomenon. A person who grows up responding to their own feelings in a natural way will automatically become empathetic. It is when their parents behave in such a way towards them that casts doubt in them about the naturalness of their fear, anger, guilt, pleasure and joy that their ability to behave empathetically is diminished.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I don’t see any point in discussing it further.

Lillian:

I'm also sceptical that empathy is a miracle cure. I'm always wary of statements like "the evidence is in". I certainly think that healthy formative experience is crucial to well-adjusted development, but the nature of society is also answerable. Deriving our ethics from the "other", a la Levinas et al, amounts to theorising in a vacuum. But I won't persist; you seem content with your conclusions.

"We are discussing what is the root of this [male violence] and how it harms everyone."

Sorry but you're not. It seems to me you're evading what's at the root of it in favour of the foliage. We should all be wary of "how things come across" to us; that is, filtered through prior conviction.
But thank you, and everyone, for the engagement.

Hi folks, another quick post re recent success of the White Ribbon schools program, “Breaking the Silence.” The report focuses on a Sydney school where the program has resulted in an 80 per cent reduction in violent and aggressive behaviours. Focus is on attitudes involving male privilege, male power and control and the objectification of women as underlying causes of violence: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-04/sydney-school-ditches-detention-room-white-ribbon-program/5866242