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The Forum > Article Comments > Men in trouble > Comments

Men in trouble : Comments

By Andee Jones, published 24/10/2014

It isn't just the Barry Spurrs of the world. The male of the species is in deep trouble and he doesn't seem to have the foggiest notion why.

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lillian,

"....Is it a fact? Why do you seem to expect all women to be perfect?.."

Well, yes it is a fact that many women as well as men are right behind Morrison's agenda.

Why does it ensue that I expect "all women to be perfect"? I was making the point that women too can override their empathy when it suits their agenda.

"Since you have previously argued that encouraging empathy does no good why do you seem to object to encouraging its opposite, dehumanisation? "

I pointed out that empathy was an innate human response. - without it a person would be unable to interact with other people. I did not argue that "encouraging it was no good", merely that it was a fundamental trait of human development.

I happen to think Morrison's pogrom stinks to high heaven, but am equally appalled that so many support it....men "and women" - entangled as they are - and susceptible to confected threats and media-hyped faux hysteria.
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 6 November 2014 1:25:27 AM
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Hi Squeers
Perhaps you'd like to summarise your argument? A lot of ground has been covered by all of us and I think it has been really interesting. What I have got from you is that you seem to think that we are stuck with what we have (violence, capitalism) You earlier suggested education as a way out but not sure you still support that.

"I take the view that our "consciousness of" behavioural mechanisms, implicit in self-reflexive examinations conducted even by offenders, indicates executive awareness above enculturation. ...The final point,.. individuals are just as likely capable of self-correction over lifetimes, rather than generations. Though a) this cuts both ways and implies the essentiality of the "sadistic savant". And on the other hand b) this cuts close to foucault's perhaps paranoid concept of the internal police state.Education's the key, but may not stop the Hannibal Lecters of the world!"

"surely fair to say that Women seem to want to place themselves above criticism, being quick to shout misogynist!"

"I'm not a Marxist but if we're going to have grand narratives it seems to me that late capitalism offers more tangible rationales for the world's ills, as well as those of individuals. We're surely all utterly commodified and patriarchy too serves capitalism as the greater power."

Hi Poirot
I too am appalled by Morrison and the way that people are sucked into hatred and fear of others. I think it comes from callous manipulation of our basic instincts of anger and fear. There is a really good book by Dylan Evans called "Emotion" that shows how those base emotions are the earliest and things like love, compassion etc are in the frontal lobes, not the amygdala. I think telling people this, and allowing them to feel their emotions without lashing out, is the way forward. If we know how and why we are being manipulated at least we have a chance to decide if we want to go along with it. That is the point of the Hawn Foundation doing meditation in schools.
Posted by lillian, Thursday, 6 November 2014 10:45:40 AM
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Hi Robert
My pet cause is to live in a society that allows us all to flourish. Being a woman and (especially) a mum has enabled me to see how the vulnerable are treated. I also had a time as a professional and so know that while all is not rosy in the world of work, once you become a carer for others then you are regarded as mostly irrelevant, if not an actual burden on society. It made me realise that everyone has something to offer and the (turbo) capitalist way of only supporting the economically profitable is cruel as well as ridiculous.

The questions should be how do we ensure that people are treated kindly and fairly regardless of their age and abilities? It is pretty clear that our current systems are wildly out of whack where the richest 85 people own more than the poorest 3 billion.

That women and children are the poorest on the planet and that an estimated 30 million of them are in sex slavery http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2014/09/18/4090413.htm.

The biggest trades in our globalised economy are arms, drugs and people trafficking. http://geopium.org/640/illegal-trades-across-national-borders-2

That our systems are overwhelmingly run by men. Unfortunately the men that rise to the top in these systems are deeply amoral. Lacking entirely in any spark of empathy or social justice.

The 2010 film "Inside Job" is worth a watch to see them in action. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zx56p_inside-job-full-movie-hd_shortfilms

Also have a look at the revelations today about the way companies, governments and individuals are rorting tax so that countries and people are impoverished. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale

I think our world could use a lot more social justice and empathy. This cannot happen without everyone, but especially men, standing up for it. Women cannot do it alone (yes Poirot, I know not all women are doing this but lots are.)
Posted by lillian, Thursday, 6 November 2014 11:13:15 AM
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