GrahamY – A Christian society and a humane society are not the same thing. It is all about motivation.

When Christians act charitably it is because they follow the teachings of Christianity. You cannot just follow some of the teachings of Christianity – you have take on board the whole package. If you want the benefits that being a Christian brings then you must be prepared to do what Jesus wants you to do. One of those benefits may be everlasting bliss in heaven but you cannot get that if you do not help out those less fortunate than yourself. Another benefit is that you may feel like you find some comfort for your emotional stresses in life. Another may be that you find fellowship with other Christians. In order to have these good things you really have no choice but to tag along whenever a Christian group goes out to do good works.

A human society on the other hand helps their fellow man simply because it is the humane thing to do. As human beings we all have built into our nature a sense of justice. Anger is the obvious proof of this. We feel anger when we are treated unjustly. We also have compassion that we feel when we see others who are treated unjustly because we know how painful that can be. This compassion moves us to help those people. Just because we do not always respond as readily as we might does not negate the fact that those things are inherit in our nature.

This is not to suggest that Christians do not have these feelings but their motivation will always remain suspect. Are they doing good for the sake of doing good or for the perceived benefits to themselves in other areas of their lives? When a humane person acts charitably and there is no reward possible then such suspicion is removed. It is not really charity when you are really looking for what you can get out of it.

Christianity has nothing to do with these charities, it is all to do with prestige for the CEO & a huge Salary. The more money he can raise the more prestige & bigger the remuneration. It must be remembered that only an average across all Charities of 25% of what is collected get anywhere near the Charity intended target. The 75% is Administration Fees.

As I said before. They throw parties to raise money to throw parties to raise money.

Dear Phanto,

When Christians do charity in expectation of heavenly rewards or fellowship, they practice at the level of Religion-101.

When humanists help others in order to gain social acceptance and acknowledgement, they practice at the level of Humanity-101.

When Christians do charity in the service of God, without expectations, they practice at the level of Religious-Mastery.

When humanists help others out of pure compassion, they practice at the level of Humanity-Mastery.

There are in fact even lower preparatory classes where Christians abstain from sin for fear of hell and humanists behave civilly for fear of the police.

Attempting to compare Humanity-Mastery with Religion-101 is inappropriate.

Yuyutsu - When Christians do charity in the service of God, without expectations, they practice at the level of Religious-Mastery.

Well then they are doing two things. One is charity the other is service of God. Why not just do charity because it is a worthwhile thing in itself? The service of God adds nothing to the charity for the person receiving the charity since the same level of charity can be provided by someone not serving God. Christians do many things in their lives simply because it is reasonable to do them. You don’t eat food in the service of God you eat because you are hungry. You don’t drive your kids to sport to serve God unless you have a rather bizarre notion of what the word service means. To serve means that someone benefits. How can God who needs nothing benefit?

If you can achieve the ends that you claim you want (to help others) without servicing God then why not do only that? It must be because you need to serve God for some other reason and this can only be the benefits you perceive in other areas of your life. You may serve everyone without exception but you are still doing it for your own benefit.

One of the things that amuses me is where soldiers of the world's biggest Christian Nation (America) hold prayer meetings before they go out on missions to kill those that their Government has told them are 'enemies', these being those who don't believe in the profound sacredness of capitalism.

Of course, enemies come and go, depending on the fashion of the moment. After Christian America invaded Vietnam they killed millions of locals and now they are supplying Vietnam with patrol boats to keep them safe from the 'wicked' Chinese.

Christian America also engages in torture, rendition, caging prisoners, the use of depleted uranium and Agent Orange, Napalm which burns people alive, the joyful machine-gunning of Iraqi civilians, has used atomic bombs, has developed tactical nukes and chemical weapons, has used cluster bombs and landmines, drones, etc, etc, not bad for people who claim to be Christian.

I seem to remember a time when, during the Spanish Inquisition, terrible torture was inflicted on the godless in an effort to convince them that God is Love!

Yeah, Christianity, what a can of worms! I mean, even today, clerics feel up little kids and rape them.

Suffer the little children, and boy, do they suffer!

Religion, regardless of its colour, is a cancer that keeps us from ever achieving peace on earth.

Then that's its mission of course!

Dear Phanto,

Yes, speaking in absolute terms, God doesn't need anything.

But speaking in absolute terms, others don't need anything either. In absolute terms, there is nothing but God: the Giver is God, the Receiver is God, the Giving is God and the Gift is God: the perceived separateness is a divine illusion.

However, one must begin somewhere.

So when a very-beginner approaches religion, they are told to abstain from sin in order to avoid punishment, as that's the only level they, for the time-being, can understand. This at least gets people out of mischief and prevents bad habits. Later, one is told about the reward of heaven, so they learn to use their will-power to form good habits.

Once good habits are formed, one can be taught about the true purpose of religion - to unite with God. One is taught to serve others as a practice in order to lose one's limited individual perspective and learn to see God in everyone and everything. Once the good habits are already there, the will-power that was developed in the earlier stage, along with the expectation of heaven, should now be renounced.

Thus charity is not for another person, but for yourself - you do it in order to grow closer to God, you serve others as a practice to see God in them (in your own words, "It must be because you need to serve God for some other reason"). Yes, at this stage there is still a tiny seed of expectation and will - to attain God.

Once God is realised, this last seed of desire is gone as well. Now you actually see God in everything, now you consciously serve God when you serve others. Having realised that others ARE in fact God, now you understand why they are worthy of service.

<<you are still doing it for your own benefit.>>

Yes, because you too are God.

But how to get there?

-That's what religion is all about, whether formally-declared-as-such or otherwise.

Ubi caritas et amor -Deus ibi est (where there's charity and love, God must be there)!