Ojnab,..<<..Please OUG can you write so we can all understand what you are saying,>>

clearly..not..

<<>.remember long and lengthy and hard to read opinions normally are not read>>

so..what?
my spirit..says say this/say..that..so i do
[thats the best..i can do]..a beat-up pick-up truck..cant look..like a jaguar
i can only deliver/the message..its up stop others what they feel driven,,to do...with it.

<<and skipped over.>>
thats..ok..too
<<..There is no proof>>

EITHER_WAY..caause that interferes with freewill
if i..presented my/proof..how can/that apply..to ANY-other/..one who stoped listening

in the end..im..only accountable for my..own ignorances

my..proof..that a God, Spirit, Soul exits, is my personal..gift
i know..what life made happen..to me/that shaped..me..gave me my proofs..[not yours]

<<these are all man made items.>>

ok..present..your proof..and i will refute it

the one thing..i..do know..is god..made life..[life didnt make god]

my life teachings taught me..ENERGY>>CANT..BE CREATED..NOR DESTROYED
[i..will listen..to..your PROOF..that it can..be lol..destroyed]..[even/though..I..*KNOW.,.it cant.]

short enough for you?

your proof..please....how was the universe created
where didst..life come from?..[what was the first living thing][first life]
what was..the 'first/evolution..of life/your proof?]..where did it come from..[what is your proof?]

do you believe..the brane-theory..[of creation]..how is that different..from heaven/hell
do you believe as mr dorkins postulaytes..that life came from..alians..[if so where did their living come from..[how were they begot?

you have been decieved..
[if you believed..god would have proven/his reality..in..every second..of your life..
call//god..the sum total..of all..[E}.=.energy..[ie..mass/light/space/time]..

you are my proof..of god
so/what=your proof of no god?

OUG, if God was the creator of the world, where did God come from, or who was God's creator. Something has to come from something, perhaps you can enlighten me, because most people enjoy this life, they want to continue enjoyment after death. So some person invented the saying "if you believe in me (God) you shall have everlasting life" then everybody seemed to be happy and joyous, except some that questioned that God is an imagination of the mind only, like children with Father Christmas.

i have replied more fully..because it feels like a troll/off topic

but..in good-faith..it begins here
but coonludes at link

see link at bottom..

i write it hoping..that..the incongruity..of it
is pointed/out..[explaining..questions..gives me different guidance]

but..i..dont judge my guides
only..writing..what they say..now
the previous..[at/link]..is much more reliable

use your freewill..if it sounds wrong
ask..your own..guides to advise..they reply instantly

so expect immediate reply
[by synchronicity]..it was noted a few times
[in writing this..which continues
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040#178185

Ojnab,<<..OUG,..if God was the creator..of the world,
where did God come from,..or who was God's creator.>>

WE..=energy
god=energy

effectively...collectively..we..could be...*said..to/have been
gods 'creator'..COLLECTIVELY..[in unity]..not ever individually

AND>.thus is/not creation..
fulfillment..'of men'..'E'..[or/rather SPIRITS..of men]
but not as men..pro-claim..[as in..god concept/made-up/by man]

think..of it..much..like our own/body..90%..of us is water
but most of our dna..belongs to..the OTHER/life forms/micro-beasts.. moulds bacteria..etc..virus/dna/..[the organic/biota]..Sustaining.. the living..of our mortal;..body..its living..

so too..like our specialist/biota..are each..of our
individual/UNIQUE/life-specialties that together/animate..the collective good.

god=E[energy/ie mc2..
[you know..E=MC2..[its science/albert einstein]
E=cannot be created..nor destroyed..thus E..ALLWAYS..was..[see eternal][E=eternal/E=energy..[E=MASS times the speed/of light/times the speed of light]..thats how it would be replied..by math

by the bigbang..we are all E..[energy]

and E=god..[science yet again..theorizes]..that 14.400.[million].. years ago..that the universe..began expanding]..this..likely occurred..when satan..[and half of the angels..left heaven]

anyhow yadda/yadda..long story short
god is eternal..he is the collective...sum total..of all the E
that may..or may not have manifested..by his creation..

with a big bang

500 more words at link
so im not trolling..off the topic

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040#178185

AJ Phillips, Jon J.

The following hadith with commentary will help us put the issue in context

<<The Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “We Prophets are like that: our pain is multiplied so our rewards will be multiplied.” [Ahmad]

The Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said this when he was suffering from a fever much higher than what normally afflicts people and the Sahabah were surprised by this.

In general though, this is true for all sincere believers, that their greater hardship is made a cause for their greater reward in the Hereafter.

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly. One day a small opening appeared. He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through that little hole.

Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared as if it had gotten as far as it could, and it could go no further.

So the man decided to help the butterfly. He took a pair of scissors and snipped off the remaining bit of the cocoon. The butterfly then emerged easily. But it had a swollen body and small, shriveled wings.

The man continued to watch the butterfly expecting that, at any moment, its wings would enlarge and expand to be able to support the body, which would contract in time.

Neither happened! In fact, the butterfly spent the rest of its life crawling around with a swollen body and shriveled wings. It never was able to fly.

What the man, in his kindness and haste, did not understand was that the restricting cocoon and the struggle required for the butterfly to get through the tiny opening were Allah’s way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight once it achieved its freedom from the cocoon.

Sometimes struggles are exactly what we need in our lives. If Allah allowed us to go through our lives without any difficulties it would cripple us and we would never be able to fly!>>

cont....

cont...

The example of the butterfly in the Hadith commentary illustrates that we cannot know what is good and what is evil without knowing the context. Is it evil to amputate someone’s hand? The answer will depend on the context. If it is to prevent the spread of gangrene to the rest of the body, then it is a mercy!

So how does one judge what is good and what is evil? As a Muslim I rely on the Qur’aan, the Prophet and those learned scholars whose only thought is of their friendship with God.

How does an atheist interpret what is good and what is evil?

Let me venture an opinion. For an atheist there is no Hereafter. Whatever purpose they choose for themselves, if they have one at all, is of this life, the only life they recognise. So when they see a mother separated from her child they declare it an evil. when they see the slaughter and destruction, they declare it an evil. They say either God is either unable to prevent the evil or unwilling to do so; that God is either not the all-powerful or not the all-merciful.

Its seems to me that the atheist is here conveniently neglecting two things about the “God Hypothesis”. The first is a distinction between our purpose and existence in this world and our purpose and existence in the next, the Hereafter. Compared to the Hereafter, our existence in this world is not even a blimp. Yet when the atheist sees a sacrifice in this world they will only look for the benefit in this world. For an atheist there is no Hereafter.

For example, for the atheist allowing a tyrant such as Gaddafi to remain in power for so long is rewarding evil while relegating a pious Muslim to poverty devoid of wealth and power is a sure sign that there can be no all-powerful or all-merciful God.

cont...

cont..

Nevertheless, an atheist cannot deny the Hereafter as part and parcel of the "God Hypothesis". In this context these events can be easily reconciled with a God that is All-Merciful and All-Powerful. Gaddafi’s gaining and retaining power corrupted him, while denying the pious person power saved him from a similar fate. An atheist might say "So what? In the end Gaddifi got all the money and girls and the other guy got nothing despite all his piety". This is what one would expect from someone who neglects to consider the Hereafter as an integral part of the God Hypothesis (as it undeniably is).

To understand this more fully, one needs to recognise a second aspect of the “God Hypothesis" that atheist seem to be ignorant of or ignore. Compare the apparent durability of our possessions and our environment, the universe and so on with the fleeting, ephemeral nature of our actions, our intentions and indeed the manner in which we experience these actions and everything that is around us. Again the atheist cannot deny the Hereafter as an integral part of the “God Hypothesis” (at least from a Muslims perspective) and that in the eyes of the believer it is the later that persists and is everlasting.
How a Muslim experiences this world is his key to success in the Hereafter.

Returning to the main point, the atheist critique of the “God Hypothesis” is flawed. It fails to recognise that it includes the Hereafter and does not comprehend the nature of success under the hypothesis.

Prophet said: “How amazing is the case of the believer; there is good for him in everything, and this characteristic is exclusively for him alone. If he experiences something pleasant, he is thankful, and that is good for him; and if he comes across some diversity, he is patient, and that is good for him.”

salaams