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The Forum > Article Comments > Family arguments > Comments

Family arguments : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 28/10/2013

How is she going to clear her head of the idea that it is all about morality and that the church is a spoilsport at the table of life?

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I got only as far as, "This is not a rational construct although it is not irrational" before having to accept that I lacked the ability (or need) to understand the bases on which this paper would surely rest.

Or perhaps what I really lack is the ability of many to look at the world and conclude that rather than aligning with what their senses report, it actually aligns with some extra dimensional,evidence-dismissing notions that they would much prefer to be the case. And which therefore it does.
Posted by GlenC, Monday, 28 October 2013 9:48:49 AM
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Yes your arguments are totally inadequate.
Yes your daughters have been completely propagandized by the secularized doubt-mind that mis-informs our entire culture.

But so have all of those who subscribe to the usual Christian mumbo-jumbo, especially those who belong to Spiritually empty (indeed Spirit-killing) forms of reductionist exoteric Protestantism. And who pretend that because they subscribe to and promote the now archaic Christian mumbo-jumbo about the mommy-daddy "creator"-God, the Bible and "Jesus" they "live" in a realm "superior" to the now everywhere secularized paradigm.
This essay describes the Spirit-killing doubt mind that mis-informs our entire culture:
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/nirvanasara/chapter1.html

This reference (and website) gives an explanation of the esoteric core of the life and esoteric Spiritual teaching of Saint Jesus of Galilee, and how it was reduced to a power-and-control-seeking entirely exoteric worldly institution by the Spirit-killing dogmas of the institutional church.
http://www.aboutadidam.org/articles/secret_identity/beyond_hidden.html
Plus http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/davidtoddunderstandingjesus.html
Other references on Esoteric Christianity
http://www.beezone.com/esoteric_christianity.htm

Brief introductions to some of the most remarkable Spiritual Masters/Realizers who have appeared on this planet.
http://www.beezone.com/historicalmasters/historicalgurus.html

Notice too that all of the inspiring Christian art that Sells refers to was made/composed a long time ago. Which raises the question as to why there has hardly been any truly inspiring Christian art made/composed in recent centuries.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Monday, 28 October 2013 10:11:59 AM
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The "good music and good liturgy" thing is probably what prompts Richard Dawkins to like going to Anglican Evensong. Although I am also an atheist, I am not immune from the aesthetic pleasures of "good music and good liturgy".
Posted by Doug, Monday, 28 October 2013 10:45:10 AM
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Hmm -- smells like false humility to me, Peter. What would true humility smell like? Well, it would start with the admission that your deeply-held beliefs are not only logically indefensible but completely wrong, and go on with an apology to everyone you have inflicted them on over the decades. But merely to say 'I can't defend my beliefs but I intend to go on promulgating them to others' is the height of arrogance -- particularly when you're actually taking money to do so.

Failing some true humility, perhaps you can get your daughters to write the next article. They would probably make more sense.
Posted by Jon J, Monday, 28 October 2013 2:28:47 PM
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I guess it had to happen eventually, Mr Sellick.

>>The conversation was about why I spend so much time in church when I disavow the conventional belief in the existence of God<<

You are currently experiencing the kitchen-table version of what many on this forum have been patiently trying to get you to understand for a number of years.

Which is, that your "belief system" does not stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Neither by people who are carefully independently-minded, nor by those folk who are ardent, dyed-in-the-wool Christians of the standard variety. Nor, in fact, anyone who is in any way straighforward in their thought-patterns.

I have no idea to which category your daughters belong - if any of the above - but I strongly suggest you make an effort to hear their questions, and to try, even at this late stage, to understand their frustration in not receiving a coherent answer. It is - or should be - the very least a daughter expects of her father.

Attempting to hide behind such irrelevancies as "a better country" doesn't cut it. Nor is there substance, only prejudice, in the claim to "the best in the arts, in architecture, music, oratory and the visual arts", as if these were the sole domain of the Christian.

Always a deceitful and arrogant trick, that last one.

Anyhow, it is good that you finally have someone close to home who will take you on. But be warned, this is just the start. When they reach their teens, they will have some even more challenging questions for you.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 28 October 2013 4:35:51 PM
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Sorry to hear there are frictions...

Young people, eh? It's all about 'me, me, me' when you get through their arguments.

"Usually, when these discussions break out I am at a complete loss as to how to respond, for there seems to be no starting point from which a convincing case could be unravelled."

Have you tried throwing Anselm's “God is that, than which nothing greater can be conceived” at them? Guaranteed hours of fun ravelling and unravelling all sorts of thoughts. Plus, they may not realise the disproofs. Or its lack of leading to a biblical, Christian or even Anglican theology.

Who knows, they may not even twig the 'can be conceived' bit means that, at its core, it is still all about 'me, me me'.
Posted by WmTrevor, Monday, 28 October 2013 6:07:03 PM
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