The fatal flaw in Lyn's article is that she ignores or doesn't understand the nature of the State. It is that group in society claiming a legal monopoly of the initiation of force and threats against the person or property of others. This fact makes nonsense of her argument.

""There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."

Oh really? Well let's take taxation. The State demands you pay as much of your property as the State unilaterally decides you must pay. They're not *asking* you. Taxation is not a voluntary donation. In fact and in law, it's a compulsory exaction. They're *telling* you.

Okay so let's take Ghandi on his first day as prime minister. Someone refuses to pay tax on the grounds that it's a violence-based transaction, and the victim chooses the way of ahimsa - non-violence.

Does that mean the State calls off its demands for money? Of course not! They'll start with letters, which are threats of future force, then go to fines, which are demands for money on threat of force. But ultimately, if you don't pay, they'll send armed men against you. If you resist they'll beat you into submission and try to lock you in a cage where you're at risk of being raped. But ultimately, if you keep resisting and defending yourself, they'll shoot you dead.

This is what Ghandi and Lyn stand for otherwise taxation would be voluntary, wouldn't it?

Lyn, ALL climate policy is based on the force and threats. Or are you suggesting compliance should be voluntary? No you're not are you Lynnie? You’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you? Government spending on climate policy is 3500 times that of Big Oil. It's you who stand for violent vested interests isn’t it? Yes.

Renouncing aggressive violence is a good idea Lyn. When you do it, you'll be a libertarian, and more non-violent than Ghandi.

Lyn, thanks for your great article on a great man! It's nice to be reminded of the great people who have graced our world, people of great intelligence, of perception, of humility, of vision, of integrity, of nobility.

It contrasts strongly with the ratbags and egomaniacs who proliferate like bacteria in dung!

We all know about the scoundrels, the psychopaths, the sociopaths, the misfits who have done terrible things like dropping nuclear bombs, like sending folk to the gas ovens, like dropping napalm and Agent Orange on native villages, like accumulating 99% of the wealth, etc.

But it's not often that we take time to reflect upon those who have made great contributions to the human journey.

Lyn, you in your way are making an important contribution to OLO although some people are too thick to recognize it. Ignore the ratbags and please, please, keep up your good work!

The above article reads like the transcript of a Greenies wet-dream


First illegal immigration:
For 364 articles each year the illegal immigrants who fly to Indonesia or Malaysia then --for appearances sake --don civies and boat the rest of the way to Oz are portrayed as poor souls too traumatized to unwind themselves from their fetal crouches.But bingo! when it suits, they suddenly become the life of the party <<But they just erupted with excitement...>>

Then there's AGW:
If we could just overcome those dastardly "vested interests" and fall into line with the IPCC & their activist allies suggestions, we'd all live happily ever after. Incidentally international "co-operation" here means that the West fund the lifestyles of the rest. And not a word about population control!

Then the obligatory visit to the shrines of the secular saints:
With allusion that Lyn's team includes most of the icons --and wannabe icons -- of the last 100 years: Anne Frank, Martin Luther King, Gandhi ...and I wont stoop to mention the wannabes.

And DavidG was delighted by it --which if any further proof was needed -- confirms it's all a load of twaddle.

The real mystery here is, why have we as a society produce so many who are addicted to fantasy.Was it too many hours of watching Disney's Fantasy World during their formative years, or was it something in the water?

SPQR must stand for Stupid, Pathetic, Queer, Ratbag!

What a pity you couldn't contribute something positive to our world for a change!

Then some people are born for greatness and some people are just born.

Lyn, David G
So are you in favour of the enforcement of climate policy or not, and if so, how is it to be enforced without using force?

I guess you could call this essay (and website) which supports Lynn's ideas a "greenie's wet dream" too.
http://sacredcamelgardens.com/wordpress/reality-humanity
And of course this website featuring individuals and groups who have chosen to light a candle rather than curse the darkness, or let the world-machine obliterate the last sparks of our feeling-humanity
http://www.dabase.org/GCF.htm
There was a popular poster/slogan in the 60's which stated that war is not healthy for children and other living-breathing-feeling beings. Such is of course the case with the current world-dominant machine, except that its power is almost infinitely greater.

That having been said, recent research tells us that Gandhi was far from being a "simon pure" character - there were some dark slippery creeps lurking in the shadows of his carefully constructed social persona.

Plaudits for the author for being able to cram so many leftie ideals into one article without ever stopping to consider for a single millisecond whether or not she was speaking complete and utter nonsense.

The author has amnesia for the fact that people like her opened the floodgates for asylum seekers and lined the pockets of people smugglers while killing hundreds in the process. But as the Left are always correct and morally superior, this cannot be mentioned. Nor can we mention that the carbon tax and loopy alternative energy schemes have pushed poor people into greater poverty. Yes,and of course, the Nazis get a mention. You just can't make a point without mentioning the Nazis. Not sure where it fits in with climate change, but hey, that probably just me.

Again, congrats on the effort. It takes extraordinary mental discipline to never stop and think about the logic of your statements and consequences of your beliefs.

Dear Lyn,

The third commandment is "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain".

While you may sincerely believe in how you desire the world to be, issues that are well discussed on other OLO boards, here you have taken Gandhi's name (and Anna Frank's too) in vain like a kid who says:

"Gandhi! Give me ice-cream",
"Gandhi! Buy me a bicycle",
"Gandhi! Let me watch television after midnight".

(Oops, my mistake, that is the fourth commandment, not the third)

Why oh why is it that these silly people, who have been off to university, & taken a course in the modern mysticism called psychology, think it gives them some understanding of things practical.

We continually get this garbage from Lyn, in which she assumes she has some understanding of things scientific.

Lady for god sake, stop referring to authority & expecting grown adults to follow your little girl understanding of the world. Some have put a damn sight more effort into understanding the science than you have, & do not need a psychologist to tell us how not to put 2 & 2 together.

Lyn its fair to say you could spend the reat of your carrer sorting through the troubled existance many of the commenters here clearly have. So full of hate and venom, little trolls.

All we have to have now is runner to post something about non violentace cuases a break down in marriage and we would have had all the usal foaming mouth right wings posters done for this post and one to the next. when Alan Jones falls off the perch who will they get their facts from I wonder?

clever marking/product placement
yet its all lies..no matter how 'nice'

..what jesus would say
[how come..he wasnt thrown..in the plot..too?

he didnt reply..the survey?
missed the cut..wasnt ghandian enough?

didnt fit the imagery?
xtians dont support carbon...tax?

jesus wasnt good enough..for the athiest?

anyhow a slick spinjob..using ghandi
[it was never going to..really be about ghandi..right?

ps..like many polies..ghandi was a lawyer
her KNEW that./.*any tax was constitutionally invalid
in fact all tax is voluntary..[recall..YOU APPLIED..to them]

applied means begged[you begged for an advantage]
thus created..the paper FICTION..lof your tax file number

see that tax is ONLY..on..income..because you created..the paper fiction...Attached..to your name./.you dont have to pay..the paper fiction..you created must*

[see the paper person..cant earn wage*[tax-free]
[thus can..only have earned income][see wage..isnt income
but if mug imbeciles WANT to pretend to be paper/fiction..want [chose]..to pay tax on wage..just cause they think..thats income

well let them
they got what they asked [begged/app-LIED..to do]
all tax is copletly voluntary..and govt can only pass laws..
EN_forc-able..upon..the* paper fictions..they created via many/various/acts

creasted by lawyers..for lawyers
judged by former lawyers..if this thread was really about ghandi
not a detraction..AWAY..from openly diss-cussing..ghandi's day

[i noticed you ditched all pretense
halfway though the first page]

you greenie capital;ist industrialist lobby
want your tax so bad..you ignore jesus..[till xmass?]
to then..detract from what jesus really did..too..ie[prove both judgment and resection days fraud..bogus like your greenmail plot thread

yeah peace man
[what about john and joko?]

bag it girl

anyhow
here is an example of non-violent change
never ever never..any but..ever passive..change..for cause of course

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0

The comments by UOG are intelligible and the comments by Runner about Lyn verge on, or in fact are, defamatory.

On a couple of occasions I have stepped out of line and been stood on and I deserved to be!

Come on, Graham, apply your rules fairly and equally!

My apologies, Graham, I used the word Runner when I should've used the word Hasbeen. Occasionally I can't tell the difference between them.

Please forgive me!

Another Mea Culpa! I meant to say 'unintelligible'.

They say that 'age shall not weary them.'

They lied!

<<Another Mea Culpa!>>

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Absolutely no more cupas for you tonight.
Judging by the last three posts, you've drunk enough for one night

let me explain..my previous post

<<..yeah peace man
[what about john and joko?]

bag it girl>>

if you will recall..john and joko..held a bag in/protest
they were right into activism..[recall..[who could forget]..their bed in?

i wondered if that was intelligible
maybe not..but im peeved..i thought we were remembering gandi
for good or ill.he resisted tax..cause its a lie..think how he fought JUST ONE TAX..we now got over 200..[thats what lobby achieves..whjen they lobby

and to lobby..on..anne frank
and two murdered heroes..who did too have human failings

well thats just sick..[and im sorry to have to say that]..too

BY ALL..MEANS REMEMBER GHANDI*

BUT..
if your really writing..
'cause you care'..more about the other issues on..page two/three

[i cant help but feel betrayed]
it just conforms with..too many other tricks..*used to bring IN..the *new tax

GHANDI too..WOULD RESIST..get it?
he marched..for NO..TAX..

have some respect
for our dead.

You need to check your history a little, one under god.

>>GHANDI too..WOULD RESIST..get it? he marched..for NO..TAX<<

Gandhi (and the Indian National Congress) marched against one tax only, the salt tax. Not specifically because it was a tax, but because of its symbolic importance in the lives of every Indian, and hence a powerful means to further the cause of independence. At no time did he campaign "for NO..TAX", since he was an extremely pragmatic individual.

They chose to oppose the salt tax because it was extremely identifiable to all the people, unlike some others under consideration, e.g. land tax, which would have failed to resonate with every single citizen.

As for taxation being "voluntary", good luck with that.

Start perhaps by explaining to your local Coles checkout chick that you don't need to pay the GST appearing on the till roll. And to your employer - if you happen to be employed - that they should not remit PAYG on your behalf, because you decline the offer to contribute voluntarily to the government's coffers.

Whether you like the concept or not (and seeing what it is spent on, I most certainly don't), taxation is now a fact of life. Reversing the process, by persuading government that they are perpetrating a criminal act by taxing the citizenry, is not possible, given the percentage of the electorate that now relies upon it for their daily bread.

Lyn
Do you think that climate policy should be enforced, or not?

Since you obviously have a problem with intellectual honesty or logic, let’s just look at why you have refused to answer the questions that prove you wrong.

Either you’re in favour of enforcing climate policy, in which case you’re in favour of using violence, you’re contradicting yourself, and you’re a hypocrite. Or you are in favour of climate policy being voluntary, in which case you’re contradicting yourself.

In fact, you’re even in favour of killing people, aren’t you? Because if someone does not agree to you using the State to force or threaten them into obeying you, and refuses to comply, then the State’s agents will escalate the violence they bring against your victims, won’t they? And that’s why you’re in favour of the State enforcing climate policy, isn’t it?

So at what stage would you denounce the use of violence and hold that compliance with your opinions about the weather should be voluntary? The State’s agents send a warning letter. The victim of your aggression persists in his liberty. They summons him. He rightly regards that as a threat and doesn’t obey. The State’s badge-wearing thugs go and try to arrest him. He recognises that this is an aggression against his person and resists. They point guns at him. He recognises that this is an act of aggression from whose criminality the State wrongly purports to exempt itself. They shoot him.

So prove you’re not in favour of killing or threatening to kill people for disobeying your arbitrary intolerant opinion? At what point, short of shooting people dead, do you renounce the use of violence? Because obviously all anyone will have to do is escalate their response to the State’s violence up to that level, at which point, compliance with climate policy will be voluntary, won’t it? And if not, why not?

What you need to understand is, you’re actually a very violent person, despite your self-conceit to the contrary based on not thinking through what you’re talking about.

pericules...your/a clever guy
you know..the feed-in tariff..is just..a money grab

a great excuse..for annual increase/of prices..[just as..the carbon tax..provided great cover..for that little/extra]

MATE..takeaway..the heading..and the topic..is about/carbon tax
read..half of..the first page..and the real*..adgenda of the spin..becomes clear..

yes all..the clever guys..got..their..44 cent feed-in/tariff rate

but..the poor..[who couldnt afford..even a tax on salt]
cant afford..this tax for subsidy..of the rich..
who saw..a great deal..and took it up..for many..it began paying them..from day one

but*..here is..the really/clever thing..
no one gets..the actual CASH..it sits on credit..[as a debt]..till that very..day they too..go bust[cause..it got..spent/stolen/misplaced./.lost in the system

till..that day..
power jumps..beyond 44 cents
[by 2028..we will/have forgotten..why
exactly..we gave..free solar to some..clever enron-esq clever guys..PLUS..a nice..income stream..to those..not so few..who festooned..their roofs..with..freee-[solafr/discredit]..with the..by now broken/solar..cells

,mate.the anger will rise..as
more..wake up..to the criminal treason..of those..who sold us out

[heck..this topic..*is SUPPOSED to be..about ghandi..
but such..is the..clever spin..that to..proved a con..too late

THESE PEOPLE....HAVE NO.SHAME BRO*
really..they live in another world

[the land of the free-lunch...of free-govt subsidy..
whether it be..free solar stuff..subsidized housing..tax shelters..or their kids..private education/health systems..or to buy-up poor hovels..with govt tax deductions..just to make..a quick buck..

*if ghandi..takes their side..PROVE IT
this carbon/farce tax..talk..is cheap spin..mate..

from go..to the eventual woe*

once..we all*..feel the pain..
of the 44 cent..feed in 'tariff'

[the current costs..are only to..re-pay/down..the govt debt..
it got into.*giving the ccccrap away..to its mates..[fellow criminals..]

its colluded..proceeds..of
crime..so many..should be..in jail

so i begin ..with the spin writers
who sold..the rest of us out..to earn..their pie crumbs
or rather a promise..of some crumbs..

the plan..is that..it rises 4 fold..by the 2016..

who know's..how much by2028..
as more realize..we being screwed..by enron /clever guys..in power communication..energy and service's..only banks will own..any..of it..shortly

im sad./.shared guilt..has put you.on the wrong side

[smart guys..was being nice..
i used that..cause..your not stupid..
you..must know..much i said..is true

you defend..the indefensible

not only..little girls..will cry..
before this reaps..its ugly harvest

every time i..hear ghandi's..name ab-used

i get more angry..at greenie/capitalist shills...selling lies
http://12160.info/page/2649739:Page:1328875
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/climategate

Political Relevance and Global Impact of Mahatma Gandhi
By: PeaceAndJustice
http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2013/10/15/228625the-political-relevance-and-global-impact-of-mahatma-gandhi/

Human lives have become the collateral of the pattern of capital accumulation known today by the sanitized expression, the “Market economy”, with the killings of millions recorded as mere statistics, and national and international legal systems rendered powerless.

But even though it is more than half a century since the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi, wherever in the world individuals and social movements have struggled for answers,

whether at ‘Tahrir Square’ or elsewhere to surmount moral and political decay, to overturn entrenched exploitative systems or racial institutions, wherever citizens gather in mass to defy tyrannical systems, the moral political principles and strategies of Mahatma Gandhi continue to guide humanity.

Gandhi said that the alternative to acquiescing to aggressive wars was absolute ‘Civil Disobedience’ and ‘Non-Cooperation’ with the state which militarizes to wage aggressive wars.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/10/08/study-finds-global-ocean-warming-has-decelerated-50-over-the-past-50-years-2012-paper-published-in-nature-climate-change/

http://mohawknationnews.com/blog/2013/10/13/us-canada-ponzi-crash/

http://12160.info/video/what-happened-to-861
http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/10/14/blast-from-the-past-harry-reid-claimed-income-taxes-are-voluntary/

Mahatma Gandhi was a man who used violence for his own ends, that hose ends were good does not alter the fact that he deliberately provoked the British to violence.
He knew full well that the British would use violent means to break his protests, if fact their violence was a necessary part of his campaigns.

Gandhi was not violent himself but he certainly used others' violence to aid his own desires and in that sense he was a violent person.