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The Forum > Article Comments > Carr sideswipes Jews on Palestine > Comments

Carr sideswipes Jews on Palestine : Comments

By David Singer, published 14/8/2013

Australia's Foreign Affairs Minister - Senator Bob Carr - has made the long running Jewish-Arab conflict an issue in the forthcoming elections on 7 September.

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David Singer is correct to conclude that Foreign policy will be a major factor in influencing many people's votes. A survey of Australia's Macedonian community published in 2012 as part of the ARC Linkage Project Report 'The Macedonian Diaspora in Australia: Current and Potential Links with the Homeland' showed that that 77.6% of the 1100 respondents stated that the policies of Australian political parties in relation to Macedonia are a very important factor which determines how they will vote at the next election. Unfortunately, to date neither the ALP or the LNP have shown political leadership to end the institutional de-legitimisation of Macedonia at the UN, in the EU and in Australia.

Australia's biased and unsustainable policy on Macedonia is at odds with 136 countries at the UN that have recognised the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name including the USA, Canada, Britain, Russia, China, Indonesia, India, Timor Leste and many others.

The UN Charter guarantees every sovereign nation the right to self-identification but our major political parties chose to ignore this fundamental principle in order to chase elusive votes.
Posted by Macedonian advocacy, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 8:30:30 AM
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Bob Carr is a savvy politician, and he is smart enough to know that the only thing that the Arabs and Muslims want, is the total destruction of Israel. But Labor has a problem. Muslims have traditionally voted Labor, because the Muslim have very high rates of endemic social welfare dependency and they want Labor to keep the cash cow flowing from the productive Australians to their people. And, the Muzzies want to keep bringing their fellahin relos into Australia until Australia is a nice Muslim country like Somalia or Yemen. So, the Muslim electorates are strong Labor electorates.

So, Labor has to keep the Muzzies onside. It is a symbiotic relationship. Although, one might wonder why Australian politicians are looking after the interests of Muslims and Arabs instead of looking after the interests of Australians.

Labor's plan is, to just keep making platitudes to the Muslims because they know that nothing in the Middle East will change anyway. The Muslims will do anything to exterminate Israel, and the Jews most definitely are not going to allow themselves to get exterminated by the Muslims (or anybody else) again.

The Muzzies are in a quandary at this moment. They know that Bob and the Labor party want their vote, and they also know that Labor is just talking bullshiit when they drone on about "international law" and "illegal settlements. So, the have begun voting for the Greens, because the Greens are going for the Muslim vote also. And the Greens are silly enough to even think that it is the Israelis who are the bad guys.

But the Muzzies also know that the Greens are the Homosexual Party, and they are not too keen on getting into bed with them. This makes the Muzzies smarter than the Greens, because the Greens are too dumb to figure out that after the Muslims exterminate the Israelis, the Muslims are gunning for them.

We live in interesting times.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 8:56:30 AM
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Thank you, thank you, Mr Macedonian Advocacy, for showing with your post how Australia's democratic system of government is being prostituted by self interested politicians who are actively seeking ethnic votes over issues which have no bearing on Australia.

You could not have timed it better, ma-a-a-ate.

It is because o9f this fact that the Labor Party is losing it's own traditional working class electorate. They should stop calling themselves "The Labor party", and instead call themselves "The Immigrants and Refugees party."

Thank you again.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 9:02:21 AM
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Muzzies? Who or what are Muzzies? Do they attack humans at sunset?

Good on Bob Carr for putting in a good word for the Palestinians! Their terrible plight has been ignored by the racist world for far too long.

It's time that justice prevailed and the Israelis were given their just deserts. They have got away with murder and genocide (literally) since 1947 and the world, stuffed to the gills with Jewish propaganda, has pretended not to know what was happening in the West Bank and Gaza!

The Israelis should get down on their hands and knees and beg forgiveness for their countless atrocities and war crimes. Then they should return to their 1967 borders. Then they should pay reparations to all those who they've humiliated and brutalized and forced from their homes and farms.

Only then might the world see Israel as worthy of rejoining the world community!
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 10:26:20 AM
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Thats a remarkably racist comment by LEGO.
He claims that " the only thing that the Arabs and Muslims want, is the total destruction of Israel."
"Muslim have very high rates of endemic social welfare dependency and they want Labor to keep the cash cow flowing from the productive Australians to their people" (don't know is this is factual or not. No reference or statistic given to support it.)
"Muzzies want to keep bringing their fellahin relos into Australia until Australia is a nice Muslim country like Somalia or Yemen."
"The Muslims will do anything to exterminate Israel".
The suggestion appears to be that Muslim Australians are not Australians at all. All Muslims hate all Jews. All Muslims are dole bludgers. All Muslims are genocidal. All Muslims hate homosexuals. I could image the fuss if someone said such things about Jews. In fact a man was imprisoned in Western Australia for a similar such rant which he videoed and put on youtube. Three years imprisonment if I remember correctly.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 11:55:52 AM
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David G,
I agree totally, in fact you don't go far enough. The Jews have no right to be in Palestine at all. Perhaps they could be relocated to some place like Arizona, fit in well there and have a nice militarised border to make them feel at home.
Posted by Imperial, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 12:36:46 PM
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LEGO. I was waiting for the ('racist'/'islamaphobic') diatribe against you by the left/usefull idiot crowd. They left out 'homophobic' tho, the haters are off their game. Remember, the 'haters' don't like any opinion expressed that doesn't conform to their higher morality (of which they hold a monopoly you know).

Pitty they are too intellectually challenged to actually address the quoted facts end evidenced presented in the post.
Posted by Prompete, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 1:31:25 PM
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@Lego
I have recommended that your post be deleted due to your use of the word Muzzies to denote Muslims. Such blatantly offensive language serves no purpose other than to denigrate and disparage those holding to a particular religion. It has no place in what is supposed to be a civilised and rational discussion. If you can't do better, you would do well to do nothing.
Shame on you, Peter Singer, for not disowning this comment. Would you still remain silent if I used the equally offensive word kikes to denote members of your religion?
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 2:31:07 PM
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Ah come of fellas, LEGO has a university spot he needs to earn.

"In a campaign to improve its image abroad, the Israeli government plans to provide scholarships to hundreds of students at its seven universities in exchange for their making pro-Israel Facebook posts and tweets to foreign audiences."

"The students making the posts will not reveal online that they are funded by the Israeli government, according to correspondence about the plan revealed in the Haaretz newspaper."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html

LEGO is just being a touch more diligent than required.
Posted by csteele, Thursday, 15 August 2013 12:17:37 PM
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#halduell

1, My name is not Peter Singer

2. I have never sought to have any post deleted by the editor - even where I have been subjected to the grossest personal abuse by a conglomerate of Jew-haters who only want to spew their bile and not discuss the subject matter of my articles.

Why - you might ask?

Because I am more than happy for their posts to stand as living proof of their racist and hate filled views for all to read and to understand what is happening before our very eyes.

They make totally unsubstantiated claims that they cannot justify when challenged.

There are a lot of people out there using anonymous names with views that if ever they came to fruition would lead to ethnic cleansing and genocide for 6.5 million Jews living in Israel.

Just read a couple of the earlier posts on this thread and you will get the drift.

Bob Carr and the Labor Party adopting the anti-Jewish policy set out in my article without any binding Court judgement to back it will no doubt delight the Jew-haters who wish to see an end to the existence of Israel as the Jewish State.

What about telling us how you personally feel about Carr's Lakemba mosque declaration fitting the Prime Minister and the Labor Party with a policy that has no binding legal decision to substantiate it?

The same goes for all those who have posted so far.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 15 August 2013 2:27:58 PM
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#To Macedonian advocacy

You are right - political parties are interested in garnering votes and will seek to maximise their position by issuing policies that will attract various interest groups.

I am not sure why Australia acts as it has with Macedonia - but it appears from your post that the number of votes a change in policy would attract is not worth both political parties embroiling themselves in.

Jews in Australia have to accept that their numbers are far less than Moslem voters.

This situation is even worse when you consider the large number of Moslems living in marginal seats that Labor could well lose.

That is a fact of life that Jewish voters cannot change.

What is particularly dishonourable with the Lakemba mosque declaration however is that it is not based on any legally binding Court judgement declaring that Jews have no right to live in the West Bank.

Indeed article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the United Nations Charter support the right of Jews to live there.

The previous bi-partisan policy has now been trashed by Labor.

That is its prerogative - but it must cop the criticism and cynicism that follows as a result.
Posted by david singer, Thursday, 15 August 2013 2:49:35 PM
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The Zionists have been lying to Mr Singer about the documents that underpin the 1948 land grab and the current possession. In a comment added to an article in a Zionist blog [1], Dr Abraham Weizfeld [2] , drawing on Wikipedia [3], noted (partly paraphrased):

The 1917 Balfour Declaration, the April 1920 San Remo Conference and Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, and the resulting British Mandate which was endorsed by other imperialist rulers in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

“The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.” (Presumably that includes not ethnically cleansing them in a string of murderous pogroms and exiling millions of them - EJ).

[1] http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/09/22/article-80-and-the-un-recognition-of-a-%E2%80%9Cpalestinian-state%E2%80%9D/
[2] http://www.angelfire.com/co3/alaqsaintifada/auth3.html
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_conferenc
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 15 August 2013 8:25:14 PM
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Hi Rhys.

Of course it is racist, Rhys. That's because I am a racist. I used to be a an anti racist, but I realised that all of the people who claimed that they were anti racist, were very racist towards white people. You can say that the Americans are arrogant warmongers, but you can't say that the Muslims hate the Jews. You can say that the Australian people should be ashamed of themselves and sign a "sorry book" for their treatment of aborigines, but you can't make negative generalisations about protected minorities, especially aborigines.

It is a clear double standard. One of my favourite pastimes is pointing out the racist statements from the "anti racists" on OLO who are completely unaware that their negative generalisations about the groups of people that they despise is just as racist as the people they criticise. It absolutely stuns them. It has never occurred to them that declaring that groups of people can not be criticised, can cut both ways.

And thank you for pointing out that Freedom of Speech regarding social issues does not exist in multicultural Australia. Just speak the truth and the Inquisitors from the motley collection of Human Rights organisations in Australia will show you the instruments of torture to shut you up. Of course, there was once a time when trendy lefties like yourself used to get all apoplectic at any idea about political censorship. But it's nice to see that now that you have some power, that you have become the very people that you once used to fight against.

Racism is rising in western societies because of people like you, Rhys Jones. You ignored the fact that multiculturalism is just like Socialism, how many times does it have to fail before "intelligent" people like yourself figure out that it is a bad idea? People like yourself failed to create a utopian class blind society in the past, and now you are going to fail to create a race blind society. You forgot that to most people, their ethnic and cultural identity is very important to them.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 15 August 2013 8:28:16 PM
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. . .[Continued]

Dr Weizfeld notes: “A national home for the Jewish people is not a Nation-State. Even under the provisions of the Partition Plan Resolution 181 of the UN GA, the self-proclaimed State of Israel violates the boundaries set forth under the resolution. As for the recognition of the Palestine State, now acknowledged, if the Palestine State is not to be considered legal then the State of Israel would also have to be considered illegal, under international law. Furthermore what is called ‘Eretz-Israel’ is not a State in itself but quite specifically a Land, upon which there has always been multiple Nations co-existing.”

EJ: That means Jews, if they thought they were “a people”, could under the mandate be free to live in Palestine and regard it as their “national home” alongside all other communities living in the territory. The extra grab, above that allocated in the Mandate, was in persuading the foreigners in the UN General Assembly to agree to two states.

But it’s not two states but one state overlooking Palestinian Bantustans. The settlement map [4] is an eye-opener – foreign settlements cover the face of Palestine like a disease.

[4] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v3EfebS4ZXU/TMbosXQXPQI/AAAAAAAAACY/C2ZAtPcK0jw/s320/westbanksettlements.gif (each black dot is an Israeli settlement on stolen land).
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 15 August 2013 8:31:12 PM
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Hi Haldual.

I am an Australian, Haldual. It is part of my Australian culture that we shorten two and three syllable nouns by adding an "O" or an "ie" as a suffix. If you don't like it, then you are living in the wrong country.

Since you are ignorant of Australian culture, I feel it is my duty to enlighten you. Aussies say "surfie", "truckie", and bikie" Or "milko", "Garbo" or "abo". Got it now?

Try this for size. "My best friend Jacko slipped on some lino and got on compo. Then he became a wino, and now he is a dero.

I know that strine can be confusing for foreigners, but it is our country, and we will speak anyway we damn well please.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 15 August 2013 8:42:06 PM
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Dear David Singer,

You wrote: "What about telling us how you personally feel about Carr's Lakemba mosque declaration fitting the Prime Minister and the Labor Party with a policy that has no binding legal decision to substantiate it?"

The above statement illustrates the reason many people distrust lawyers.

I have read the Fourth Geneva Convention. The intent of the convention seemed to me to ban settlements on territory occupied by war. One can hire a lawyer to defend a client regardless of what that client has done or how guilty that client is. That is because our system assumes that a client is innocent until proven guilty.

However, you are not in court. The settlements have not been found guilty of violating law. You have managed to get legal opinions which justify the settlements. I don't know the motives of the lawyers who justify the settlements, but I do know that one can get lawyers to argue any side of any question.

Rather than question whether the settlements are moral, right, justified or observe the spirit of the law you point out that the question has not been adjudicated.

As far as I can see whether or not the question has been adjudicated the settlements violate the Fourth Geneva Convention since they are a development that the convention was written to prevent. I feel in this case the policy of the Labor Party is to support the clear intent of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

There is no reason that a law has to be adjudicated before one observes it. When a law has been passed it is in force whether or not there has been a trial or court case concerning that law.

You have cited lawyers who justify the violation. One can always do that. The government of Israel does not want to observe the Fourth Geneva Convention. You are defending the violation because Israel has not yet been pulled into court.

I know the convention bans settlements in occupied territory because that's what the convention states.
Posted by david f, Friday, 16 August 2013 4:44:42 AM
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Dear David Singer,

You wrote: "What about telling us how you personally feel about Carr's Lakemba mosque declaration fitting the Prime Minister and the Labor Party with a policy that has no binding legal decision to substantiate it?"

To sum up my previous lengthy post. Laws go into force when they are passed not when they are adjudicated. I personally feel fine are Carr's declaration.
Posted by david f, Friday, 16 August 2013 4:54:55 AM
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Dear LEGO,
How refreshing to have someone freely admit to their racism. However, just because you are a racist, doesn't make me one.
You also mistake me for a "trendy lefty". I can assure you I am not. I am no great fan of multiculturalism. I am a strong supporter of freedom of speech, even very offensive speech. I believe the only speech that should be banned is speech that directly incites violence. But if we do have anti hate speech laws then they need to apply equally, not selectively depending on who is currently in or out of favour with the general public. There appears to be a double standard whereby one can make obscene slanderous generalizations about Muslims with impunity, but make similar claims about Jews and you may well end up in jail.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Friday, 16 August 2013 12:55:17 PM
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Rhyme Jones. " I could image the fuss if someone said such things about Jews."
I am sure that David Singer has a filing cabinet full of comments, just from OLO, that fill all the criteria as you detail from LEGO.

I applaud your commitment regarding 'free speech' but have to admit that I found nothing in LEGOs comments inciting violence? As to the veracity of ALL LEGOs comments I could not say, but his/her choice of words seems to me to be deliberately 'inciting' the leftist 'hate' people. (Call me warped but I do find it quite amusing).

Again, whilst I find many comments on Singers posts truly loathsome, I would be able to put up with them if they were to actually address the content of the post and attempt to refute them (as does Csteel who's links I will usually follow)

Having spent many years in the central desert, and speaking 2 Aboriginal languages, many of my comments and observations are branded 'racist', but racism usually derives from ignorance, who is to say that LEGO does not propound a view/opinion based on accurate personal experience.

Branding people who hold opinions or express views counter to the 'inner city leftoid' high moral ground (yes, there's a generalisation) is the stock in trade of those without the intellectual capacity to muster an incitefull rational argument.
Posted by Prompete, Friday, 16 August 2013 3:00:03 PM
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#Emperor Julian

Your claim that a Jewish State was not contemplated by the Balfour Declaration is contradicted by Winston Churchill.

In an article entitled ‘Zionism versus Bolshevism: the Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People’, Churchill wrote in the Illustrated Sunday Herald on 8 February 1920 that Zionism offered the Jews ‘a national idea of a commanding character’. Palestine would provide ‘the Jewish race all over the world’ with, as Churchill put it, ‘a home and a centre of national life’. Although Palestine could only accommodate ‘a fraction of the Jewish race’, but ‘if, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown which might comprise three or four millions of Jews, an event will have occurred in the history of the world which would from every point of view be beneficial, and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire.’

Your extensive quote from the mandate never mentions "the Palestinians" - only the "existing non- Jewish communities". Any idea how every member of the League of Nations could have overlooked what we are now being told was an indigenous population going back centuries in time?

The "Palestinians" were invented in 1964 by the PLO Charter.

Israel has agreed to negotiate with the PLO to resolve claims by Jews and Arabs to sovereignty in the West Bank,Gaza and East Jerusalem.

Given the many missed opportunities by the Palestinian Arabs over the past 90 years - the prospects for any successful end to the current negotiations seem dead in the water.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 16 August 2013 5:22:41 PM
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Dear David Singer,

The Balfour Declaration specified the future of a land of which the British had no rights to at all. It was neither British territory nor a British colony at the time of the Declaration. It was as reasonable as the Chinese specifying the future of Madagascar. What gave the British any say at all?
Posted by david f, Friday, 16 August 2013 6:12:29 PM
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Hi Rhys.

If you are not a trendy lefty, then you are probably smart enough to be deprogrammed. Please lie down on the couch and I will see what I can do.

I agree that incitement to violence should be illegal, but you see Rhys, since multiculturalism is a self evident failure in every country cursed with it, the advocates of this failed system are desperate to shut up people like me. So they are desperately trying to roll back our democratic rights because things like Freedom of Speech is a real inconvenience to them. Former Attorney General Nicola Roxon even tried to muzzle the free press, which is why the free media hates Labor. I was once a conscientious objector to the war in Vietnam, and today I am a conscientious objector to those who wish to attack our western democratic freedoms.

Now, I once believed in Santa Claus, and that God consisted of three separate entities which were all the same thing. But as I got older I realised that what I was being programmed with was obvious BS. I also believed that all human races were equal, because my culture had programmed me with that particular fiction also. But as I got older, I realised that the only way that the socialist humanitarians could explain why some races and ethnicities were always crime prone, welfare dependent and dysfunction, was to always blame the white guy.

Now, you can't program me to be an anti racist and then think that I can't see the obvious racism in the arguments of the so called "anti racists."

The most obvious contraction I see all the time, is some wacko claiming that it is utterly wrong to prejudge, label or stereotype minorities. But you see, Rhys, the people who say that constantly do exactly the same thing to the minorities that they don't like. Say something bad about aborigines or Muslims, and they all froth at the mouth. But in the next sentence they routinely attack Americans, Israelis, One Nation supporters, Nazis, and the Ku Klux Klan.
Posted by LEGO, Friday, 16 August 2013 6:44:54 PM
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# David f

You continue to fail to understand that Carr, Rudd and the Labor Party have adopted a policy that states that Jews have no right to live in the West Bank according to international law - without any binding legal decision in international law to support that claim.

The Jews claim the right to live in the West Bank pursuant to article 6 of the Mandate for Palestine and article 80 of the United Nations Charter.

Pious and sanctimonious shouts of "illegality" whilst doing nothing to prove it smacks of Jew-denigration and Jew-delegitimisation.

Carr Rudd and the Labor Party have now become parrots of a mantra that has no substance in any binding legal case to support it.

You also state:

"The Balfour Declaration specified the future of a land of which the British had no rights to at all. It was neither British territory nor a British colony at the time of the Declaration. It was as reasonable as the Chinese specifying the future of Madagascar. What gave the British any say at all?"

Palestine had been a very small part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years before it and vast tracts of that empire were conquered by the Allied Powers in the First World War.

At the San Remo Conference as subsequently ratified by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920 the conquered Ottoman territories were apportioned as to 99.99% for Arab self determination and as to 0,01% for Jewish self determination.

The Arabs have never accepted that carve up of the Ottoman Empire pie.

Their insistence on 100% has brought them and the Jews nothing but grief.

After 90 years you would think the Palestinian Arabs were now ready to talk turkey - but they do not yet appear to be prepared to do so.

What they could have had in 1937 or 1947 or between 1948-1967 or in 2000/1 or 2008 is far more than they can ever hope to now be offered in 2013.

That is their choice - but they can blame no one but themselves for their intransigent and rejectionist stance.
Posted by david singer, Friday, 16 August 2013 11:14:24 PM
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The Singer states: "The "Palestinians" were invented in 1964 by the PLO Charter."

I'm surprised that he didn't go on to say: the Palestinians caused HIV, halitosis, dandruff, the Great Depression, the dropping of nukes on Japan, global warming, the Global Financial Crisis, the fall of Stalingrad, the crucifixion of Jesus, Australia's recent losses in the Ashes, the sinking of the nuclear submarine in Mumbai, the extinction of the dinosaurs, and the melting of the icecaps!

And that's only for starters!
Posted by David G, Saturday, 17 August 2013 1:17:47 PM
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the "existing non- Jewish communities". (Ottomans - League of Nations)

"The "Palestinians" were invented in 1964 by the PLO Charter."

It's not difficult.
Posted by Prompete, Saturday, 17 August 2013 2:42:57 PM
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Dear David Singer,

Carr did not sideswipe Jews on Palestine. Implicitly you have equated Jews with those who support the settlements. Many Jews both inside and outside Israel do not support the settlements. Please don't assume all Jews share your bias and lockstep support of the current Israeli government. You don't even speak for the Jews in Israel who oppose the present government and the establishment of settlements.

Yitzhak Rabin questioned the value of the settlements and was assassinated by a Jewish fanatic.

http://www.fmep.org/reports/archive/vol.-4/no.-4/rabin-stirs-debate-on-value-of-settlements

Failure of Settlements

Rabin now admits that a generation of settlement since 1967 has failed in its mission to transform the territories into part of Israel. The intifada made clear to Israel the cost of attempting to build in the hills around Nablus and in Hebron what an earlier generation of Zionist pioneers did in the Negev and Galilee regions of Israel. The Israel Defense Forces, he observed recently, remains an "occupation army" in the territories captured in June 1967.

You desecrate the memory of Rabin.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 17 August 2013 3:53:04 PM
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“ Pious and sanctimonious shouts of "illegality" whilst doing nothing to prove it smacks of Jew-denigration and Jew-delegitimisation.” (David Singer).

The Geneva Convention [1] – law subscribed to by the whole civilised world, even the USA which is Israel’s handler - proscribes settling in land grabbed in a war and not transferred to the grabbers by a peace treaty. This makes not only the settlements which befoul the West Bank, but also Israel itself which was grabbed by armed invasion in 1948, illegal. That’s why every decent nation in the world and even some indecent ones regard the settlements as illegal. Carr’s “sideswipe” merely reflects that the international community’s overstretched patience with Israel’s increasingly shrill claims of racial primacy is wearing thin – for Israel dangerously thin.

Of course Mr Singer will weasel out of the Geneva Convention by claiming it isn’t really a law, and fall back on the tired old claim that to reject Jewish exceptionalism is “Jew-denigration”. A claim which is a painful embarrassment to decent Jews who accept without question that Jews are NOT more special than the rest of humanity, they are subject to the same laws both moral and legal including the Geneva Convention, they are no more entitled to displace a people for a second homeland than anyone else.

Israel has a sweet racket running: bribes enough Americans in key positions to raid the American Treasury for billions of dollars to fund Israel and 1 ½ billion a year more to bribe Egypt’s brasshats to co-operate. But the USA has budgetary problems and won’t be able to afford the Zionist burden indefinitely.

[1] http://www.nad-plo.org/print.php?id=4
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 17 August 2013 4:33:46 PM
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Dear David again uses other peoples words to attempt to justify his means, i.e. his immoral use of Churchill's words "...with the truest interests of the British Empire."

Well that pretty much sums it up doesn't it.

If it is in the interests of the British empire its ok then..........err sorry wrong.

David is a Straw man, pushing a barrow of putrid vitriol against the Arab Indigenous people whom used to reside in what is now the false state of 'israel'.

You will not change his view, he is a bigot and a big bigot at that.

If Carr wanted to sideswipe the Jews on Palestine I think our foreign policy would be somewhat different.

Get real David and stop pontificating on your blatant bias based on your immoral legal stance as a poor lawyer.

Geoff
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Saturday, 17 August 2013 9:26:33 PM
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# To David f

Mr Rabin's historic path and his ideas and visions are set out in the speech he delivered to the Knesset on October 5, 1995 - just days before his assassination.

That speech identified the following signposts that Mr Rabin's vision sought to take:

1. First and foremost, the State of Israel would be a Jewish State, at least 80% of whose citizens would be Jews.

2. The State of Israel would include most of the area of the Land of Israel as it was under the rule of the British Mandate; and alongside it a Palestinian entity which would be home to most of the Palestinian residents living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

3. The Palestinian entity would be less than a state and would independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority.

4. The borders of the State of Israel would be beyond the lines which existed before the Six Day War. Israel would not return to the 4 June 1967 lines.

The main changes Mr Rabin envisaged as a result were:

a) Jerusalem would be united and would include both Maale Adumim and Givat Zeev as the capital of Israel under Israeli sovereignty;

b) The security border of Israel would be located in the Jordan Valley, in the broadest meaning of that term;

c) Gush Etzion, Efrat, Beitar and other communities in the area east of what was the "Green Line" prior to the Six Day War would be included in the State of Israel;

d) Blocs of settlements would be established in Judea and Samaria like the one in Gush Katif;

e) No single settlement would be uprooted in the framework of the Interim Agreement, nor building hindered for natural growth;

f) The responsibility for the external security along the borders with Egypt and Jordan, as well as control over the airspace above all of the territories and the Gaza Strip maritime zone, would remain in Israeli hands; and

g) Murderers of Jews, or those who had wounded others seriously, would not be released
Posted by david singer, Saturday, 17 August 2013 9:54:20 PM
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Dear David Singer,

Rabin said different things at different times. At the end he realised the futility of many of Israel's policies so a Jewish fanatic shot him. Sadat realised the same thing about Egypt's policies so an Arab fanatic shot him. One great problem in the Israeli Arab conflict is that many people on both sides don't realise how much they are like one another. Two men who did realise it were murdered by their own side.

Those, like you, who have a one-eyed view and justify everything their own side does are a force for continued conflict.

Rabin and Sadat are martyrs to peace. Gandhi was also murdered by a fanatic on his own side. Go on, Singer. Keep the fires burning. You are safe from the fanatics on your own side.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 17 August 2013 10:39:04 PM
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Pompete, everybody on planet earth makes generalisations about groups of people. How it ever got into your usually impervious cranial cavity that this is somehow wrong is beyond me. I presume that some idiot that you admired simply said it as a slogan and you internalised it without ever bothering to think about whether or not it is correct.

If you claim that you do not make generalisations about groups of people, then I swear that I am going to watch you and I am going to catch you doing it yourself. And when I do catch you, (and I always catch them) am I going to toss it right back in your face (metaphorically) and ask you for an explanation.

What we constantly see on OLO and other debate sites is trendies like yourself chanting this mantra that it is utterly wrong to prejudge, label or stereotype anybody, and then see them doing it themselves.

Talk about bloody doublethink.

Get it through you head that everybody makes generalisations about groups of people. It is an everyday occurrence. It is normal, natural and routine. Whoever put it in your head that it is wrong was a moron.

The problem with the trendy lefty humanitarian worldview is that it depends upon human beings complying with moral values that are unnatural and unobtainable, and which are so potty that the trendies can not conform to them themselves.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 18 August 2013 6:23:38 PM
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LEGO. Re read my posts. .. You miss read me by 180 degrees! Of course people generalise, all the time.
Posted by Prompete, Sunday, 18 August 2013 9:48:09 PM
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