Dear Banjo,

>>This, of course, is historically a domain of research occupied by the humanities though recent inroads in the domain have been made by so-called neurotheology scientists.<<

In that quote and elsewhere, by “science” I mean “natural science” and not what the Germans call Wissenschaft (as for the French “science”, you know better), having in mind mainly physics. So I am not sure to what extent what I wrote applies to social sciences and humanities.

As far as “neurotheology”, built on neuroscience, is concerned, I think it cannot decide about the structure of Ultimate reality (i.a. “the existence of God”) any more than a neuroscientist scaling a working mathematician’s brain can decide whether the proof of something he/she offers is correct or not. As put by Vilayanur S. Ramachandran (whom Richard Dawkins called “The Marco Polo of neuroscience”):

“Just because there are circuits in your brain that predispose you to religious belief does not in any way negate the value of a religious belief. Now it may be god's way of putting an antenna in your brain to make you more receptive to god.” (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbraintrans.shtml)

The same as an anthropologist, sociologist, historian etc can study the phenomenon of religion without making assumptions, or drawing conclusions, about the existence or non-existence of God or anything “divine”:

“This book can be read either as a study of the evolution of human IMAGES of God, or as the evolution of the human CAPACITY TO COMPREHEND God. The same theoretical model suits either interpretation.” (Rodney Stark, “Discovering God: The Origins of the Great Religions and the Evolution of Belief, HarperCollins 2007; I had to capitalize parts that are italicized in the book.)
(ctd)

(ctd)
>>That is not to say that I, for one, should expect anybody to change their minds … as a result of its research.<<

I agree 100%. It is in the nature of the fundamental worldview assumptions that they cannot be decided one way or the other through arguments acceptable to all, theists as well as atheists. Conversions, or losses of faith, do happen, however not as the outcome of some impersonal, detached, rational, “scientific” - or even logical - argument.

OUG,

Spirituality - whether “religious” or “secular”, self-made or rooted in tradition (Christian, Buddhist, Sufi, etc) - has nothing to do with God being “judgmental”, although ethical systems associated with e.g. the Abrahamic religions has this aspect of seeing God as being behind moral norms that refer to conduct, behavior, and not to being spiritual or whatever.

Spirituality and religiosity do not contradict each other but are either mutually independent or complement each other, depending on how you define religiosity.

Antiseptic,

>>your own metaphor, which is addressing a somewhat different conceptual aspect of the topic<<

Well, in that link the metaphor addressed one situation, here I used it to illustrate the advantage, as I see it, of spirituality rooted in tradition over “self-made” spiritualities that seem to be mushrooming in the West in recent years. And you provided a third, more general context re our Western model, which I look at very much the same way.

The same about the forth case concerning over-specialisation in scientific research. I agree in general, although the problem is, that there are not, and cannot be, true polymaths any more. Nevertheless, I agree that creative synthesis is good (except where it is done the way Sokal and Bricmont criticise, c.f. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3445#82275), and so are dead ends, more precisely research that shows that this or that way of going is a cul-de-sac.

antiseptic..<<..We need more creative synthesis>>..sin-thesis

<<..and that means we need to give people time and freedom to follow their curiosity, even down dead-ends.>>

I AGREE..thats why we each have eternity..to get it right
[do it our own way]..KNOWING..the dead ends..cause we been there..done that..and that didnt work for me..[AT that time]..yet im glad it works..for them...at this time

gerorge..<<..this aspect of seeing God..as being behind moral norms that refer to conduct,behavior,..and>>

to the being..being..behind the normal-normative norms of being..
we chose our base being..like we chose how/where/wether..
to drive an auto..or cycle

[god just makes the elect-tricks/mechanical s work]
where we chose to drive..THEN*..is up to us

religion..at its core
must be based on a common core or common destination
or common cause..creeds cuss-toms norms..conduct predicable behavior

not..?
<<..to being spiritual or whatever.
Spirituality and religiosity do not contradict each other
but are either mutually independent or complement each other, depending on how you define religiosity.>>

religiosity
is a classification/judgment call

religion=many fold religiosity..[plural]..[re legions] many

religious=signular personal

spi-ritual*
$pi-ritual
spirit-u-all*

george..<<.."much effort has been invested..in recent decades in finding clues..in contemporary science..that allow for an account of special,..providential divine actions,..without postulating violation of natural laws"..>>

are we talking of miracles?

<<theories that allow..for an interpretation of God's action
so as to provide an understanding of the latter from within the former.>>

A satisfactory account
of how this can be achieved is still lacking.

jesus wrote a course in miracles
http://acim.org/Lessons/

<<..“Be still,..and lay aside all thoughts..of what you are and what God is;..all concepts you have learned..about the world;..all images you hold about yourself...all..you think god to 'be'..do>>

first see you are the miracle
see the mirror-call..of your life/all living

<<..Miracles occur naturally as expressions of love.
They are performed..by those who..have more..for those who temporarily have less.>>
http://www.weboflove.org/courseinmiracles
<<..Only those..who give over all desire..to reject
can know..that their own rejection is impossible..>>

<<..The ego..does not want to teach everyone..all it has learned, because that would defeat..its purpose...>>

<<The ego seeks to divide and separate.
Spirit seeks to unify and heal..>>

<<Love will immediately enter into any mind that truly wants it.>>

<<Anger involves projection of separation,..which must ultimately be accepted as one's own responsibility,..rather than being blamed on others...>>

<<..Empty your mind of everything..it thinks is either true or false, or good or bad,..of every thought it judges worthy.. and all the ideas of which it is ashamed.

Hold onto nothing
Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught,
nor one belief you ever learned before..from anything.

Forget this world,..forget this course,
and come with wholly empty hands..unto your God.”>>

Lesson 91
http://acim.org/Lessons/lesson.html?lesson=91

Miracles are seen..*in light.

It is important to remember..that miracles..and vision
necessarily go together...This needs repeating, and frequent repeating.

It is a central idea..in your new thought system,
and the perception that it produces...*The miracle is always there.!

Its presence*..is not caused by your vision;
its absence..is not the result of your failure to see.!

It is only your awareness..of miracles that is affected.
You will see them..in the light;..you will not see them in the dark.

To you,..then,..light is crucial.
While you remain in darkness,..the miracle remains unseen...Thus you are convinced it is not there.

This follows from the premises..from which the darkness comes...Denial of light..*leads to failure to perceive it...Failure to perceive light..is to perceive darkness.

The light is useless to you then,..even though it is there.
You cannot use it..because its presence is unknown to you...And
..*the seeming reality of the darkness..makes the idea of light meaningless.

To be told..that what you do not see..is there..sounds like insanity. It is very difficult to become convinced..that it is insanity not to see what is there,..and to see what is..*not there instead.

You do not doubt..that the body's eyes can see.
You do not doubt..the images they show you are reality.
Your faith lies in the darkness,..not the light.. How can this be reversed?

For you it is impossible,
but you are not alone in this.
Your efforts, however little they may be, have strong support.

Did you but realize..how great this strength,..your doubts would vanish...Today we will devote ourselves to the attempt to let you feel this strength...When you have felt the strength in you, which makes all miracles within your easy reach,..you will not doubt.

The miracles your..sense of weakness hides..will leap into awareness as you feel the strength in you.

important to read next lesson

http://acim.org/Lessons/lesson.html?lesson=92

..<<beliefs that come from the conviction you are a body,
and the body's eyes can see.

You also believe the body's brain can think.
If you but understood the nature of thought, you could but laugh..>>

thought?

http://acim.org/Lessons/lesson.html?lesson=132

Lesson 45

God..is the Mind..with which I think.

Today's idea holds the key..to what your real thoughts are...They are nothing that you think..you think,..just as nothing that you think you see is related to vision..in any way.

There is no relationship..between what is real
and what you think is real...Nothing that you think..are your real thoughts resemble your real thoughts..in any respect.

Nothing that you think you see..bears any resemblance..to what vision will show you.

You think*..*with the Mind..of God.
Therefore you share your thoughts..with Him,..as He shares His with you.

*They are the same thoughts,..because they are thought..*by the same Mind...To share..to make one...is to make alike,..

Nor do the thoughts..you think with the Mind of God..leave your mind, because..thoughts do not leave their source.

Therefore,..your thoughts are in the Mind of God,..as you are.
They are..in your heart mind as well,..where He is...As you are part of His Mind,..so are your thoughts..part of His Mind.

Where,..then,..are your real thoughts?
Today we will attempt to reach them.

We will have to look for them..in your mind.. because that is where they are...They must still be there,..because they cannot have left their source.

What is thought..by the Mind of God..is eternal,

We will attempt to leave..the unreal and seek for the real.
We will deny the world..in favor of truth/light/love/logic.
We will not let..the thoughts of the world..hold us back.

We will not let the beliefs of the world..tell us that what God would have us do is impossible...Instead,..we will try to recognize that only what God would have us do..is possible.

We will also try to understand..that only what God would have us do..is what we want to do...And we will also try to remember that we cannot fail..in doing what He would have us do.

There is every reason to feel confident..that we will succeed today. after all..It is the Will of God.

Lesson 15
http://acim.org/Lessons/lesson.html?lesson=15
My thoughts are images that I have made.

Lesson 19
http://acim.org/Lessons/lesson.html?lesson=19
I am not alone in experiencing the effects of my thoughts.