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Some thoughts on the Bali bombing : Comments
By Irfan Yusuf, published 5/10/2005Irfan Yusuf argues the Bali bombing was an attack on Indonesian Islam.
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Posted by Philo, Thursday, 6 October 2005 9:15:58 PM
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funkster has no right to apologise on be half of all Australians.You can do on your own behalf but not on mine or many others.
Irfan,where are these protest marches against terrorism that will show us your good faith and alliegence to country.The sniggering silence some groups are displaying are making us a tad distrustful. We should not back away from these issues for the sake of offending Muslim sensitivities.The prodminately Hindu Balinese are protesting since their Govt are sitting on their hands and not confronting terrorism.Abu Bakar Bashir will soon be released and he condones the use of nuclear weapons on the West.For him to be an untouchable,a sizable proportion of the Indonesian pop must sympathise with him. What does that say about our Australian Muslims?Muslims cannot go on nodding and paying lip service to their good faith and fidelity by hiding behind a veil of being vilified or disriminated against.We want to see actions and not just words. Posted by Arjay, Friday, 7 October 2005 12:09:34 AM
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Funkster,
Thanks for your kind note. Luckily most Australians are like yourselves and Reason but you do not need to apologise. Interesting postings from the usual 'I hate muslims' squad: 1. Note the selective honesty when they pick on 1 sheikh comments but for example, they ignore all other good positive preachers like the Turk/Yugoslavian imams in Penshurst and their open day mosque teachings. They have been running religious harmony for the last 5 years. Yet Philo runs with the usual copy & paste from the daily telegraph. Why aren't these efforts in the media? 2. Arjay does not like you to be apologetic for the way a minority of Australians think. Yet he would like to play the blame game on all Muslims because of terrorism. Read my above postings about terrorism and its original target. The main target of terrorism is Muslims. Peace, Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 7 October 2005 6:25:22 AM
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F.H.
We should evaluate a faith by its scriptures/foundations, not the 'nice actions' of a few. On one point "Muslims should not take Christians or pagans as friends" Yasin says this but your Yugoslav Imams have 'open days' etc...... Well, the 2nd does not cancel the first, as it is more likely an 'evangelistic/Dakwa' exercise, than a 'make friends with the non muslims' exercise. FUNKSTER. If we stick to facts and issues, we don't have anything to apologise for. You also may need to brush up on the history of Islam and it's expansion before writing off the comments which write off a religion as u say. The core issue of such bombings is 'hate', correct. But 1/ by whom ? and 2/for what reasons ? 3/Towards who ? Ok, lets clarify. Its hate 'by' Extremist Muslims, against "Western decadence/Perceived Western oppression of Muslims/Islamic wishywashyness and moderation" The most common apologetic by extremists and moderates alike is "We condemn all attacks against INNOCENT' non combatants" But, are those who support Western values or those who hold a 'weak' view of Islam 'innocent' ? (in the eyes of the extremists) That is why they can slaughter even children without mercy. Even the hadith of Islam contains the following http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html Chapter 9: PERMISSIBILITY OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THE NIGHT RAIDS, PROVIDED IT IS NOT DELIBERATE Book 019, Number 4321: It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them">> Now, this clearly justifies the killing of women and children as long as it was 'not deliberate'. Are you getting the message yet ? about the 'flexibility' of Islam. Do you also note here how 'night raids' are permissable, yet F.H. will tell you over and over that 'only defensive' actions are justified and then 'not to transgress the limits'... hmmmm Does a 'night raid' sound 'defensive' to you ? Are my comments 'anti-Islamic' or..."Islamic" :) Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 7 October 2005 7:36:54 AM
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Ok, interesting thoughts by all.
First of all, Philo, I said I don’t know much about Islam, I am a student at UWS where there are alot of Muslims so I interact with them. Also, I have studied Islam at uni, so I do know a little. Now, I originally wanted to say that I actually disagree with Irfun's idea: I actually think the attack was against Westerners and Balinese, if you were attacking Indonesian Islam, Bali is clearly the wrong target! It makes no sense. However, I was shocked and distracted by all this prejudice, and ran out of words. Philo, I never said Islam wasn’t the problem, but I do believe that extremists/ Osama Bin Laden / Abu Bakir Bashir do not represent all Muslims any more than the KKK or Pauline Hanson (I don’t think they are the same by the way!) represent all Christians or all Australians! Regarding Yasin - nut bags occur anywhere, but it doesn’t mean they in any way represent the majority. Arjay, true, many Muslims wont condemn extremist actions, and clearly they should. But this is for a reason, because they see someone fighting against the injustice that often occurs. Not to excuse condoning terrorism - everyone should condemn it. I don’t want to wash over the whole thing like "all Muslims are wonderful and victims", BUT all I am saying is there are plenty of decent peace loving Muslims out there. Of course there are nasty ones too. Never write off a whole group, no one is that homogenous. BOAZ_David, now we can refer to the Quaran if you like, about the flexibility of Islam. But, allow me to point out, how many women and children have been accidentally killed in US bombing raids? LOTS Not only that, but the Old Testament of the Bible comes straight out and says : "Though shalt not kill!" But that doesn’t stop all us Christian nations from killing when we want to! Posted by funkster, Friday, 7 October 2005 11:28:41 AM
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BD,
What’s with the ‘lalala, am not listening, am not listening” is there few of you using the same PC? Quoran is the only divine source for all Muslims. Hadith mostly was written two centuries after the prophet’s death. What conflicts with the Quoran cannot be credible. The only ‘fight’ allowed in Islam is in self defence format, not pre-emption, and not civilians. The only two people who are confused are the likes of Al Qaeda and yourself. Now, Mr devout Missionary :-) , all the new neo-con pro war and killing of civilians as we speak call themselves ‘devout Christians’ .. What’s your views on Bush’s mission from God to invade Iraq and Afghanistan? There is 85,000 civilians dead in Iraq alone to date. How does the banning of baby milk formulas to Iraq killing 600,000 new born during the sanctions? All the ‘legal’ killing of civilians (in millions) is happening in the name of your religion today, here and now! Any words of wisdom to your version of Taliban? Kaktuz, There are different types of references on the character of Mohamed (PBUH): - Muslims historians. - Arab Christian historians. (ie Dr Milad Hanna) - Arab Christian churches historians./ church. - Non religious credible historians/ scholars (William Muir, George Sale, other German and French scholars). - Anything else you fancy: missionaries, etc.. The first four sources agree on the character of Mohamed (PBUH) as an honest, always truthful and charitable man. All he left at his death was his mule! Conflicting features that you claim cannot co-exist within the above definition. Enjoy your ‘truth’ but have a think every now and then. Kalweb, Muslim communities are doing many things on youth education amongst other things to combat terrorism in all mosques including the city ones. This is more important than the ‘marching in the street’ suggested by Arjay. The media is just selective good news never sells. Boaz, Kaktuz and Philo might boycott the daily telegraph. Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 7 October 2005 2:13:57 PM
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Muslim Sheik Khalid Yasin said Muslims couldn't have non-Muslim friends.
He's setting up radio and television network here to spread his extremist message. Launched last weekend, the Islamic Broadcasting Corporation aims to attract a quarter million subscribers. This US preacher is aiming at young Australian Muslims with a radical mix of pleas for understanding terrorism and anti-Western conspiracy theories.
For Yasin, terrorists bombing Bali is justified by hundreds of years of Western oppression of Muslims.
Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda did not carry out the September 11 attacks on the United States - they were a "rogue operation" by Western governments. Instead, he says, "we now know the way those buildings fell, they fell from internal explosive charges the same way it's done on a building site."
He said, "The Koran gives a clear position regarding homosexuality lesbianism and bestiality," says Yasin. "They are aberrations punishable by death...We can't walk around society slandering them because there is legislation against doing that."
According to Yasin is was missionaries from the World Health Organization and Christian groups who went into Africa and inoculated people for diphtheria, malaria, yellow fever and they put in the medicine the AIDS virus.
For all his claims of having been mistreated by the Australian media, reporter Sarah Ferguson discovers that Yasin has been given an easy ride. He's also in Australia raising money for his broadcast company based in England. And local Muslims eager for their own voice have given big money. But SUNDAY has looked into the company and found Yasin's claims about it are bogus. And while he presents himself as a "moral-minded" teacher of Islam, someone who corrects "distortions and misconceptions" about his religion, his academic qualifications are also a fiction.
2GB Ray Hadley will interview Sarah Ferguson from Sunday program re the Yasin interview (Friday 7/10/05)...
between 10am - 1pm you can hear it and download to hard drive via www.2gb.co