Dear Yuyutsu,

You are conflating two different things. Persecution is one thing, and not being able to observe the Sabbath is another thing. All one has to do wherever one is to observe the Sabbath without triggering any electronic devices is to stay home on the Sabbath and not use any electrical devices. It’s that simple. Some Orthodox Jews in Sydney play traffic roulette and run through traffic so as not to press the buttons on the Sabbath.

However, with the threat of terrorism there are probably CCTV cameras all over Israel, and I doubt that they are shut down during the Sabbath.

I agree. It is outrageous for people who do not believe in the Torah to wave that book to claim the land. Please cite who has done that? To the best of my knowledge no non-believing Jew has cited the Torah. They do cite a historical connection that is more recent than the Torah in the same way that other irredentist claims are cited by other ethnic nationalists.

I don’t care for ethnic nationalism of any kind. Any country should not discriminate among its citizens on the basis of ethnicity, race or religion. Self-determination to demand a nation on the basis of a shared ethnicity has built in discrimination and unfairness.

Unfortunately Israel is only one of many ethnic nationalist states. Even if a country is not based on ethnic nationalism, patriotism and nationalism can result in xenophobia.

An unfortunate fact is that people of any ethnic origin can behave like Nazis. All colonial endeavours by the European powers were accompanied by extermination. Ben Kiernan’s “Blood and Soil” is a history of 2,400years of genocide accompanied by land takeovers and claims. A history of persecution can result in a desire for payback. Child abusers may have a history of being abused as a child.

And so it goes.

David S states the following:

"Abbas has gone outside the negotiations with Israel in declaring Palestine to be country. He is perfectly entitled to abandon those negotiations and make a unilateral declaration - but then he has to tell everyone the precise area where this country is located.

Otherwise his claim is nothing more than hot air."

Well by my count Israel's establishment was outside of the negotiations with the genuine Arabs who lived in what is now the 'mythical land of Israel', a blatant unilateral declaration, one that has no borders, at least recognised by modern international, unbiased and true law.

Without the financial and politically biased support of the myopic and sociopathic US government and their shills, Israel in its current form would fail to exist.

Singer is the ultimate hypocrite and his continued ranting shows his complete contempt for justice, fair-play and any sense of rational behaviour.

Why we bother responding is beyond me, other than the need to slap this silly man in the face with some real facts.

Show me on a map where Israel is supposed to be David and I will hold you account when the Zionists take one step over your mythical border and take by force as usual, the lands of those who currently reside there.............Mark the date 9 May 2013 and we will see where that border stands in 12 months, not the same place would be my guess!

To Geoff of Perth

Since sovereignty in the area known as the West Bank and Gaza remains unallocated between Israel and the newly declared country of Palestine your prediction could well prove true.

Abbas wants 100% of that territory. At best at present he himself controls about 40% by my calculations. The way he is going makes it likely he can end up with nothing in 12 months.

At last count he had been offered more than 90% and knocked it back.

With this kind of Arab bazaar he might just wake up one morning to find that the Jewish customer has walked out of the store as the price the Arab vendor was demanding was too high.

Like so many instances in history including 1923, 1937, 1948, between 1948-1967, 2000/1 and 2008 the Palestinian Arabs have passed up so many opportunities to have their own sovereign independent State alongside a Jewish State. It has always been their choice to ignore reality and bury their heads in the sand - as it is now.

They have to live with their decisions and do as they think is in the best interests of the Palestinian Arabs.

As I have said previously - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Abbas has walked away from Oslo and the Bush Roadmap. Once again he has proved that he never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Google seems to have swallowed Abbas's latest decision hook line and sinker.

So be it.

Dear David F.,

<<All one has to do wherever one is to observe the Sabbath without triggering any electronic devices is to stay home on the Sabbath and not use any electrical devices.>>

Is weekly home-detention such a light sentence?
Not being able to go to synagogue; Children cannot play outside; Not seeing friends and extended family - or alternately squeezing a minimum of 10 men in sleeping-bags in the lounge every Friday in order to have a quorum to pray - is that a way to live?

I am not privy to what Israeli security services do with their CCTV during Sabbath (whatever they do I'm sure they've got Rabbi-support), but I know that most traffic-lights in Israel have no pedestrian buttons, and even for those that have, green pedestrian traffic lights turn on periodically on the Sabbath even without pushing the buttons.

<<I agree. It is outrageous for people who do not believe in the Torah to wave that book to claim the land. Please cite who has done that?>>

Both Ben Gurion (below) and Aba Eban (in a U.N. speech):

[Lord Peel spoke up, saying “Mr. Ben Gurion, the Arab people have a Kushan entitling them to this land.” A Kushan was an Ottoman land deed. “Do you have a document saying that Palestine belongs to you?”

At that point, Ben Gurion became aware of the Tanach (Hebrew Bible) in his hand that he swore upon whilst taking the oath to be witness to the commission, and he held it up triumphantly exclaiming “Here is your Kushan, here is your document. It is the world’s most highly respected book, and I believe that you British regard it with much respect too. We must have this land.]

(From http://www.torchweb.org/torah_detail.php?id=125)

Like you, I also dislike nationalism/racism, but I consider it legitimate for any group of people owning a contiguous piece of land who unanimously desire sovereignty over that land so that they can pursue their unique lifestyle there, to have that wish fulfilled.

Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote;

“I do take the risk of being blown up by Iranian nukes and other unholy pieces of metal, chemicals and explosives falling from the sky when I go there, but that's an appropriate type of risk one should take for their family's sake. Wouldn't you do the same?”

Indeed. I hope you and your family remains safe from harm.

It is a wish I also extend to Iranian families and to Australians fortunate to be able to visit loved ones in Iran. Forgive me if I count their chances of being blown up by Israeli “nukes and other unholy pieces of metal, chemicals and explosives falling from the sky” slightly higher than that of your own though I recognise this perspective is only afforded those with no direct involvement in the hostilities.

But there has been some good news recently, the IDF has decided to stop stockpiling and using white phosphorus munitions. Apparently it “doesn't photograph well”'
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/463/591.html?hp=1&cat=875

These terrible weapons aptly fits your description of “ unholy pieces of metal, chemicals and explosives falling from the sky”

“It causes severe burns when it comes into contact with humans. Phosphorus continues to burn as long as it is exposed to oxygen, so the burns continue to penetrate deeper into the body's tissues, making the injury especially horrific. Even if physicians manage to remove the burnt tissue, the phosphorus is absorbed in the blood stream and poisons internal organs. One of the persons injured by phosphorus in Gaza, Ghadah Abu Halima, died from her wounds many weeks after testifying to B’Tselem about the incident in which five people in her family were killed by phosphorus-laden artillery shells. (Read Abu Halima’s testimony: http://bit.ly/o2IhBe )
Bt Selem

Israel had been heavily criticised for its use during Operation Cast Lead and the iconic photograph of the rain of white phosphorus on the UN school in Gaza put paid to any denial from the IDF. This was a weapon that was banned for use in civilian areas by international law for very good reason.

This is a very welcome undertaking from the IDF.

Yuyutsu: “Like you, I also dislike nationalism/racism, but I consider it legitimate for any group of people owning a contiguous piece of land who unanimously desire sovereignty over that land so that they can pursue their unique lifestyle there, to have that wish fulfilled.”

Dear Yuyutsu,

There is no unique lifestyle. Ultra-orthodox, the modern orthodox, the reform, the conservative and the irreligious Jews all have different lifestyles. To make all Jews have the same lifestyle is to promote a tyranny. It means that one of the differing Jewish lifestyles becomes law to which all Jews, whether they find that lifestyle compatible with theirs or not must conform.

There also is no place on earth where any contiguous piece of land of any size is occupied by a people of the same ethnicity or religion. Israel contains non-Jews. They have a right to pursue their lifestyles, too. There is no reason that a non-Jew living in Israel should have to conform to Jewish practices in regards to diet, holy days or anything else. They should also have the right to live where they are living and not be ethnically cleansed.

No decent society should have the right to enforce religious law on those who do not want to follow that law. I think both Israel and Australia have bent over backwards too far in catering to religious sensibilities. I see no reason that the general Australian taxpayer should finance non-public schools or have chaplains in the public schools. All religious schools should be entirely paid for by the parents of the children who go there and/or the religious body to which they belong. In Israel I see no reason that all Jews and non-Jews should be compelled to observe the lifestyle of a subset of Jews.

It is not legitimate for any group sharing the same ethnicity or religion to have a nation based on that shared identity. Nations must not discriminate among its citizenry. Law should not be based on a book of religious fables.

We will not agree. Let’s stop.