"Yet no map has been produced by President Abbas indicating where the country he presumably heads is located."

Where is the Israeli map of its borders mr singer?
There isnt one is there. You hypocrite.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Speaking of creating space this incident last week might serve to illustrate what is happening on the ground.

“The Palestinian landowners called the police to report the trespassing. Sh'hab a-Din, a volunteer in human rights organization B’Tselem’s Camera Project, filmed the incident as it unfolded. When soldiers arrived on the scene, the Palestinians told them that this was their own land and that they wanted the trespassers removed. The soldiers ignored these explanations. Rather than sending the settlers away, the soldiers arrested the Palestinians and took them to the Kiryat Arba Police Station. There, the police did not release the detainees. Instead, the police demanded cash bail and a pledge that the Zaros not go out to their land for 15 days. The detainees insisted that they were innocent of any wrongdoing and refused to pay any money or sign any pledge. Consequently, the police kept them in custody overnight.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3QrSxnQI74&feature=player_embedded

Here is a link to the entire story on B'Tselem.

http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20130430_arrest_of_a_zaro_family

These are illegal Jewish settlers who more likely than not will end up appropriating this land within a few years, possibly by provoking a response from the Palestinian owner that will get him barred from his own property.

And so on it goes.

Dear Csteele,

I writhe in agony upon reading such stories. I feel so helpless about it.

Dear David F.,

You are right, so that is why I mentioned earlier that I'm going slightly off-topic in introducing the issue of having a Jewish state for the purpose of being able to properly observe the Sabbath.

Nevertheless, it is not totally off-topic, because the founders of Israel promised that the Jewish state exists so that in future it can absorb ANY Jews persecuted around the world.

One cannot forecast the potential dangers 100 years in advance. Nobody believed that the holocaust could occur in the midst of civilised Western-Europe (and who either could believe that some Jews can behave like Nazis themselves, see Csteele above). Similarly, nobody could foresee the advent of CCTV cameras in public space. If this trend continues and CCTV cameras are introduced in the suburbs, then orthodox Jews will flee to Israel in droves, where they can safely walk the street on Shabbat without accidentally triggering an automatic shop-door to open or having to press a button to get a pedestrian green light.

Israel will still be there to accept them.

As for Zionism, I can justify observant Jews, but I honestly cannot understand why Jews who do not believe in the Torah should bother having a state just-for-Jews. If they feel threatened and overpowered, and as Herzl felt that even assimilation was not feasible, then they should instead create a state open for ALL refugees fleeing persecution. I do consider it outrageous for people who do not really believe in the Torah to wave that same bible-book, which they themselves do not believe in, as "evidence" for owning that land when it suits them.

To mikk

You confuse the issue of boundaries with borders.

The claim to be a country obliges the claimants in international law to state where the boundaries of the country are located - i.e the area of the land claimed to be under the control of the claimant. Whether those boundaries are recognised by neighbouring states as constituting a border between them is a matter for negotiation.

Abbas has gone outside the negotiations with Israel in declaring Palestine to be country.
He is perfectly entitled to abandon those negotiations and make a unilateral declaration
- but then he has to tell everyone the precise area where this country is located.

Otherwise his claim is nothing more than hot air.

Neither Abbas nor Google or indeed anyone else supporting Abbas's claim has stated the boundaries of the land that comprises the country of Palestine.

Is it Area A and Gaza, Area A and Area B and Gaza? Just Area A?

Google is looking pretty foolish jumping on Abbas's bandwagon before Abbas has made clear the area he claims constitutes the country called "Palestine"

The borders of Israel have been recognised by both Jordan and Egypt in their respective peace treaties with Israel. The West Bank and Gaza are disputed areas and are not recognised as being part of Israel by Egypt or Jordan - nor has Israel claimed these areas form part of Israel although it maintains a claim to at least some parts of these areas under the Mandate for Palestine and the UN Charter. There is no border between Israel and the West Bank and Israel and Gaza - only armistice lines agreed between Israel , Egypt and Jordan in 1950.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Many feel helpless. Some do what they can. I note Stephen Hawking's announcement that he is boycotting what had been a planned visit to Israel.

“Professor Hawking did not make a public announcement but a statement published by the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine with his approval described it as "his independent decision to respect the boycott, based upon his knowledge of Palestine, and on the unanimous advice of his own academic contacts there".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/stephen-hawkings-boycott-of-major-israel-conference-unjustifiable-and-wrong-8608229.html

The actions described above continue to validate such a stance.

Dear Csteele,

<<I note Stephen Hawking's announcement that he is boycotting what had been a planned visit to Israel.>>

The only reason I visit Israel is to see my family there.

I am not going to forsake my family.

They are not even responsible for the occupation and do not live in occupied areas. I know many good Israelis in that situation, being themselves victims of the Israeli government and the settlers. There is no reason to punish them.

I do take the risk of being blown up by Iranian nukes and other unholy pieces of metal, chemicals and explosives falling from the sky when I go there, but that's an appropriate type of risk one should take for their family's sake. Wouldn't you do the same?