Yuyutsu " In Singer's map, the only area coloured "Not-Israel" would be the U.S.A;". Come on now. The USA is another state controlled by the Zionists.

David

To Yuyutsu:

Rehclub's comment was not relevant to either the earlier thread or this one, nor was your reply to him. At the time when British grabbers (universally now dead) inflicted their Yawm-an-Nakba on the Aboriginal inhabitants and unilaterally set up states for British subjects their behaviour was as despicable as (though slightly less narrowly racist than) the behaviour of the Zionist invaders 1948 to the present day). No doubt back then there were scoundrels as desperately promoting the claims of the British settlers as David Singer now promotes the specious claims of the Zionist settlers.

Dear Julian,

<<Rehclub's comment was not relevant to either the earlier thread or this one>>

The relevance is that here we have an Australian (today, not 225 years ago) who insists that his culture (essentially British in origin) must reign supreme and has the right to impose rules and regulations that oppress other cultures, in this case installing CCTV cameras that would cause Jews to break their religious obligation to keep the Sabbath if they left their homes on the Sabbath - and if the Jews don't like it then they should leave Australia.

Jews were seeking a place on the face of this planet where they can observe their religious obligations, where they can for example walk outdoors on the Sabbath without accidentally activating electrical/electronic devices.

As some Australians (eg. Rehctub) would not allow orthodox Jews to live in Australia (unless they assimilate, as he wrote in another thread), and given it's practically the same in other countries (or perhaps even worse, as in Europe under Hitler or as in Muslim countries), then where would the Jews go? Why wonder if they want a state of their own where they can observe the Sabbath properly?

Where and how big that state may be, is a separate issue, open for discussion. What I am anxious to know, are your feelings about the very idea of Jews having their own independent space where they can follow the dictates of their religion without obstruction.

I overlooked Yuyutsu's final paragraphs.

Yes, people are fully entitled to set up their own space to observe the requirements and prohibitions of their own special claims. But not to foist them on anyone else. If normal people wish to arrange their own lives around electric currents or Saturday driving or whatever, that's THEIR right and nobody is "special" enough to be entitled to the power to prohibit them. That's what's meant by equal rights - the role of the state is to protect the exercise of these equal rights. Zionists claim the so-called "Jewish people" are entitled to "special" rights that transcend the rights of everyone else - hence the need for a "Jewish state" on Palestinian land. Shlomo Sand spells out, blow by blow, the way a cabal of Zionist historiographers has distorted history and education to promote this claim in Israel. Goyim who challenge this phoney history are described by Zionists as "anti-Semites" and Jews who challenge it through careful evidentiary research are termed "self-hating Jews".

Thank you Julian,

I am happy with your answer.

I have read Shlomo Sand. Yes, he falsifies the grandiose claims that Jews own the land of Israel on the basis of being a nation expelled from that land. So far so good.

Nevertheless, some Jews, for whatever reason, wise or otherwise, did purchase lands for the purpose of establishing their own space there.

So I understand that you have no problem with Jews having their own state on the lands which they purchased for full price from the local Arabs. The only issue would then be those additional lands that were not properly purchased.

Had the Arabs accepted the right of Jews to have their own state on their own purchased land, then no conflict would arise to begin with and the state of Israel would have remained quite small in size.

But they didn't, stupidly didn't, or perhaps because it was against their Islamic rules. It was fine to accept and pocket the money, but not so fine to accept the full consequences. Instead they turned to kill the Jews - and lost, and lost more lands in turn, causing many of their own people to become refugees - but did they care? I think not. I think that throwing the Jews out to the sea was a higher priority for their leaders than caring for the peace and welfare of their own people. It still is.

Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote: "Jews were seeking a place on the face of this planet where they can observe their religious obligations, where they can for example walk outdoors on the Sabbath without accidentally activating electrical/electronic devices.

As some Australians (eg. Rehctub) would not allow orthodox Jews to live in Australia (unless they assimilate, as he wrote in another thread), and given it's practically the same in other countries (or perhaps even worse, as in Europe under Hitler or as in Muslim countries), then where would the Jews go? Why wonder if they want a state of their own where they can observe the Sabbath properly?"

The above is not true. Early Zionism was primarily a secular and not a religious movement. Herzl, an important figure in early Zionism, was not religious. However, he despaired when he, as a journalist, reported the Dreyfus case which indicated to him that even in the democracies Jews could not receive fair treatment. Jews were under extreme civil disabilities in Russia where they were limited in where they could live, what schooling they could get and what occupations they could pursue. Early Zionism envisaged a state where a Jew would be free to pursue any occupation and interests he or she would want to pursue and would not suffer civil disabilities for being a Jew.

Most religious Jews opposed Zionism as they believed only God could return Jews to Israel, and it was against God for man to assume they could do it by political means. it was only much later that many religious Jews became Zionists. Many religious Jews in Israel and other places still oppose the Zionist state as they regard it as the work of man rather than God.

Orthodox Jews can observe the sabbath without restriction in Los Angeles and Sydney as well as in Jerusalem or czarist Russia. In fact, most orthodox Jews in czarist Russia were poor and lived in non-electrified houses.