Joe, either read the evidence about the WTC towers or don't say anything at all. Everything you say is factually wrong. In an earlier post I nominated two books to amend the obvious gaps in your knowledge. Read them. Geoff has also suggested a useful website. Have a look at it. The architects and engineers are concerned solely with scientific evidence. Al Qaeda is a red herring. It was and remains a creature of US Intelligence. Again the evidence is well documented and for those bothered to actually read and consider it is overwhelming.

The reason that people like Geoff and myself won't "move on" as you and others like you would wish is that the kinds of problems we are discussing; endless wars, losss of civil liberties etc have their wellspring in the events of 9/11. Exposé that for the lie that it is and we are going some way to awakening people to what is really going on and hopefully move them to do something about it.

Your approach will only lead to ever greater loss of our liberties. Maybe that is what you want. Just don't expect me and others to go along with that particular ride.

The author adds insult to injury by claiming that:

"we were forced into a position of fear", "we argued less in favour of our Civil Liberties knowing that our government in its wisdom was looking out for us.", or "the planes meant we could automatically be ruled by fear".

Nonsense! We were never afflicted by fear in regards to the 9/11 events and we never willingly gave our liberties away in order for the government to look out for us. As far as the ordinary person in the street was concerned, too bad for the losses but life could go on as usual. What happened is that we were robbed in broad daylight - which is in the nature of what governments always do.

Then the author adds: "And we, like sheep, accepted that change without so much as a whimper." - as if we had any choice: how does the learned author expect us, helpless ordinary people, to protect ourselves from governments? by blowing up planes ourselves perhaps (as if that would help)?

About 4000 people were killed in 9/11 - since then a greater number have died only of medical complications resulting from making flying as a passenger so much tougher (including dehydration, thrombosis, exposure to radiation, heart-attacks and other stress-related conditions). These deaths however are quiet and unsensational, they are overlooked because they cannot produce dramatic media headlines.

From the article - "the planes meant we could automatically be ruled by fear".
One reply - "We were never afflicted by fear in regards to the 9/11 events".
Not true! Fear has become our governments sock in trade. They reach for it first. From Jerusalem to San Francisco and Sydney, we are encouraged to fear. We are exhorted to fear. Islam has been the fall guy. Cyber fear is coming.
Fear will play a part in our own coming election. Probably looming "terrorists", definitely the rise of China.
So much easier to instil fear and lock down than to instil hope and build.
The planes not only meant we could be ruled by fear, they also meant our representatives could get away with being very, very lazy.

Dear Halduell,

<<Not true! Fear has become our governments sock in trade. They reach for it first. From Jerusalem to San Francisco and Sydney, we are encouraged to fear. We are exhorted to fear.>>

There is no contention that governments ("OUR governments"? I never owned one) try to encourage and exhort people to fear, but only the readers of Pravda may have been affected, or rather infected.

For the rest of us, we know very well that if there's anyone to fear, it's the government itself!

So why do you buy Pravda? http://www.russian-jokes.com/political_jokes/why_do_you_buy_pravda.shtml

Actually Yuyutsu, if you believe that governments don't rule by and keep us, in fear, to make us more manageable, you probably missed the entire point of the article. Before then, we frequently protested decisions by governments, which impacted on our Civil Liberties. Well, at least some of us did. The rest worked for those governments and likely, many still do.

Your decision to mock the author probably reflects more on an inability to fathom or respond to the political process today, rather than anything else. As has been said around the place, consider the argument, rather than have a go at the writer.

Do you believe Australians today demonstrate any interest, in the political process? Now less or more, than pre 9/11? Do you believe Australians "cop it sweet" when a new parcel of laws is passed to "protect" us, or do they rise up and say "NO WAY"?

Are you positing that Australians are not now ruled by fear? If so, state that, and the basis for saying it.

Just for the record, can you share with us, in your obviously deep wisdom on the matter, where the 9 Billion dollars, that has gone to the intelligence community has gone? That is the amount they have absorbed in protecting us from terrorism.

Back to you

Dear MMS,

Disagreeing with someone does not amount to mocking them.

I believe that Australians demonstrate less because we grew bitter and cynical over the years, understanding that there's nothing we can do about the government. The Australian electoral system being a joke, we learned that screaming only gets us sore throats. I also believe that this has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. The government was looking for a pretext for increasing its control and they just happened to find it in 9/11 - otherwise they would have found another pretext.

Yes, though it was made politically-incorrect, I still say that Australians are not ruled and were never ruled by fear of terrorism. It's something that happens in America and I don't give it a second thought, nor do my friends: when we fly, the only thing we worry about is the hardships caused by the "security" measures, perhaps a bit also about mechanical faults and bad weather.

Yes, I say that even the government does not really fear terrorism, but actually secretly consider it as an opportunity rather than a threat.

Those 9 billion dollars? obviously they went to feed the government's proteges and their families, employing them to harass the general population.

You may the ask why I bother to write at all?
- While it's hopeless and there's nothing we can do about government actions, I can at least protest against the author's attempt to accuse and implicate us of cooperating with them.

If terrorism ever became a real threat (which is not currently the case), the best way to fight it would be to completely ignore and not report it. Terrorists feed on publicity: without media-reports their actions amount to nothing.