...Of course any opposition to this “sop” will be immediately labelled heartless and arrogant. This is the classic example of why our Government has landed itself in hot water trying to balance budgets: It too “originally” fell into the Green trap of pandering to those who support the “Poor” boat people with five thousand dollars American jingling in each individual’s pocket for the “ticket to ride”.

...Only fools fall victim to “propaganda” films; “Celluloid” lies fell out of favor with Hitler! What a joke!

I don’t believe the line that this is about breaking people smugglers or safety of asylum seekers. As clark&dawe said on ABC TV 7.30 report recently, we could "Send safe boats to pick them up!". But this is really about our fear for our comfort, not their safety, right?

Any "SOLUTION" will need to recognise that as a political reality but it seems to me that government is letting fear reign on asylum seekers.

Perhaps we might even admit asylum seeker policy is less about "orderly process" & more fundamentally about fear of sharing, and then instead of continuing to be blinded by fear we might be able to see ways to make sharing beneficial to all.

Our unsustainable social economic environmental model is the underlying problem. An idea I think has merit because of its sound triple bottom line foundations is to offer asylum seekers 15hrs/wk work developing public 'eco' housing & gardens in exchange for food, accommodation & a dollar adjustment up to the value of unemployment benefits (see http://bit.ly/YD3L01)

Now that the High Court has spoken we should start processing of all asylum seekers and refugees on Australian soil without further delay.

This processing should be quick and efficient and take no more than three months. We should not consider returning to the Pacific Solution of the Howard Government.

The prolonged detention of asylum seekers has proved to be the main cause of unrest in the detention centres and the cause of the high incidence of mental illness among the detainees.

Mandatory detention and the off shore processing of asylum seekers has failed to deter asylum seekers from accessing our shores. It has proved to be extremely expensive for the taxpayers, especially at this time of financial uncertainty.

A clear majority of Australian voters believe that asylum seekers should be "processed" in Australia.

We should address these issues without delay and in accordance with the UN Convention on Refugees signed by Australia in 1954.

@landrights4all
Chris Baulman

Who the #u(% cares?
It's another Muslim illegal immigrant Australia doesn't have to provide Aid that is much needed for Australian's Health, School, Infrastructure & Homeless.

Shira we can definitely do without the likes of your Chaman here in Oz.

He is exactly the type of citizen we, & the rest of the world, don’t need, ever. The type who run away, & want saving by someone else, are of little use to anyone.

If he was the type needed anywhere he would have stayed at home, & fought the Taliban, for his families & his countries sake. Yes it may have cost him his life, just as fighting for his welfare, at home has now cost quite a few Ozzies their life.

If our young men can go to fight for the welfare of these people, the least they could do is join that fight, not come looking for a bludge

Hasbeen you are all heart aren't you? You and your hater friends without a clue?

The Afghans built this country for us, we have destroyed theirs for them and still you hate.

There is a genocide happening over there and since Jessie made this film, which I have watched a few times now, we have discovered that the vessel that supposedly disappeared was well known to us but we decided not to help anyone to protect a dirty spy working for the AFP to kill them.

I am sick to death of the haters and worthless trash like you who don't learn, do not want to learn, have no interest in anyone or anything but your stupid selfish little selves.

Go and meet some AFghans you thugs or crawl back under your racist ugly rocks.

Marylin:

...In the reverse of your concepts that those who disagree with you are “Rogues” and worse, there must be just a glimmer of recognition in your conclusion, that a common view of cue jumpers with five thousand dollars to spare for a boat ride to Australia, are actually viewed by many Australians as just that, “Rogues”.

...I think personally, these free loaders coming by boat “Illegally” to Australian shores, are in reality the “greedy and selfish” ones in the equation! It is an apt question asked by a poster above, why the freeloading boat refugees do not stay in Afghanistan and fight the Taliban.

...Consider for a moment how our own young servicemen and women feel about Afghan youth fleeing their responsibility at home while they the servicemen, risk their own life for the Afghan cause of freedom. It is a sick and disgusting expectation on the part of Afghans to flee for the freedom of Australia under those circumstances, and rightly will not be seen as a popular move among thinking Australians!

Dear Marilyn, have you taken advantage of the offer to house some illegal immigrants for profit. No? I didn't think so. Empty vessels make the most sound.

I, for one, am sick of pussy footing around this issue with a feather pillow. It time Australia had a referendum on this issue.

Should Australia send illegal immigrants & Boat People back to their country of origin or their last Port of Call? Yes/No.

No fancy Politically Correct confusing wording as is the normal case in referendums.

Marilyn you are a sick lady.

Whatever gave you the idea that you have some right to decide how my money should be spent? That you fall in love with this worthless bunch, the boat people, merely confirms you have some strange moral problem.

Tell me, do you dress in sack cloth, or is all your generosity only with other people’s money.

No Afghans built this country. The cameleers were not Afghans, although they were so called, & even they were not building anything out of the goodness of their heart. They, like a truck driver today, were using a skill to earn a living. If it had not been them carrying the freight, it would have been bullock wagon drivers. Anything offering a profit finds a taker.

You are happy to see the future of our people compromised so you can feel good about yourself now. I am sick to death of trash like you, who hate us & our life style. You are even worse than these bludgers you so love

How on earth are we being compromised though has been? Good lord, you have been writing the same ugly nonsense for years.

MS: How on earth are we being compromised though has been? Good lord, you have been writing the same ugly nonsense for years.

Ooh,! ooh! Let me answer that Has been, Pleeeese.

The answer is just so simple it get's overlooked. You just can't see the forest for the trees.

The horrendous amount wasted on overseas Aid & providing for these illegal immigrants & Boat People is ruining Australia. Charity begins at HOME. Australia MUST look after it's own people first, before it can think about looking after other peoples. Australia has to get it's own house in order.

This obscene amount of Aid could go a long way towards fixing Australian's Health, School, Infrastructure & Homeless.
By the way you seamed to have ignored my previous Questions.
is there a reason for that? I'll repeat the Question.

Dear Marilyn, have you taken advantage of the offer to house some illegal immigrants for profit?

It would be nice to know that you are putting your actions where your mouth is. ;-)

Marilyn Shepherd,
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is & go to Afghanistan & help the people there. Your ignorant academic whining & name-calling is getting somewhat annoying.
Why don't you do a TAFE course in sense ?

Wow! The usual dips#!t$ have sadly stayed out of this one. It could have been fun.

No Jayb - you and your mates are all there.

And your answer to this debacle Landrights4all?

Do you have one? or is that someone else's problem.

Jayb, if I thought there was ANY chance of you listening respectfully and responding without abuse I would give it another go. I'm not wasting my time for your "fun", but you might try looking at what I wrote above.

Landrights4all: if I thought there was ANY chance of you listening respectfully and responding without abuse.

I only allow people to make fools of themselves then I will expand on that for fun. Unless you want a proper debate, of course, which is an entirely different matter.

Try me Lr4a. I have an extremely open mind & I always look at all sides of an argument before I enter in to it. This is an argument I have looked into deeply. I have weighed the pros & cons & have come down on the side of keeping them out. It's my opinion. I won't judge you for your opinion if it's a valid one, but you have to put forward a valid argument.

I'm not a sooky la la. I am, according to test I have had to do at various times, I.S.T.P. (Introvert, Sensing, Thinking, Perceptive), in one test, & an Analysing Thinker in another test. They are correct. It's just, that's what I do. Oh, I.Q. 135.

I will listen intently to anybody's argument. I may even agree with parts of it, but I will point out the flaws equally & fairly, as well. Can you do that? Or are you the Dogmatic type whose argument is always right & everybody else’s is wrong regardless. Do you base your argument on sentiment & undying compassion, only. Do you take into account fact as they are in the real World?

Would you like to discuss the Illegal Immigrant & Boat People problem? Please outline your position for us & we will discuss your argument fairly & without bias. If you can't do that then you automatically qualify "yourself" as a sooky la la, dips#!t & I reserve the right to take the pi$$ out of you. End of story.

So predictable! While continuing to demand I make my position clear and provide a solution, you continue to ignore what I have already posted in this conversation, as well as the fact that this is the second time I have referred you back to it. You show no ability let alone intention to listen, that would be a prerequisit in any conversation. I'm not interested thanks.

How is our future being compromised? God what stupidity. You only have to look at the hate, the complete injustice, & the rule of the strongest where all of these illegal boat people are coming from, to see what we are breeding.

These people don't love us for helping them, they despise us for it, & mostly hate us for being able to.

Have you ever noticed a huge percentage who fled on so called fear of death, have no worry going "home" to get a wife? No I thought you would avoid that one.

We all ready have blood on our streets, because of these vicious people in our midst, there will be a lot more.

My son had his skull cracked in 4 places, by a bunch of 4 "Lebs", previous refugees, who leaped out of a car, on a suburban street, in broad daylight, to attack him simply because he was alone & vulnerable, as he walked home from the train. It does not pay to live anywhere near a "Leb" neighbourhood.

The cops who attended told not to expect to hear from them, there was virtually no chance of tracking them down, even with a registration number from the car. Most of these people use stolen plates on unregistered, mostly stolen cars.

They made no attempt to rob him, but made their intentions quite clear with shouts of "get the whitey bast4rd". Fortunately these gutless thugs ran away when a couple of cars stopped to offer help.

You gullible fools are trying to cost us our birthright, & intelligent ozzies will fight you every inch of the way

Plagued by internet trolls? Here's how the slimy creatures evolve -http:// t.co/ycTQHffUL9

Lr4a :

1. We could "Send safe boats to pick them up!"

Why is it Australia's problem? These people are doing something that is against the Laws of Australia & Indonesia. They are coming from Indonesia & Australia has to save them. What!??

2. An idea I think has merit because of its sound triple bottom line foundations is to offer asylum seekers 15hrs/wk work developing public 'eco' housing & gardens in exchange for food, accommodation & a dollar adjustment up to the value of unemployment benefits.

Please explain why Australia should do this. These people have crossed multiple boarders carrying 10's of thousands of Dollars, by-passing perfectly good suitable Islamic Countries with similar cultures, to come to Australia a non-Islamic Country with a culture which is purely offensive to them. They have entered Australia, falsely claiming Asylum. (See the UN Charter on crossing Multiple Boarders.)

3. Asylum seeker policy is less about "orderly process" & more fundamentally about fear of sharing.
It’s not about sharing. Australia shares more than its fair share of Aid across the World. The problem is that Islam is incompatible with Western Culture & Values. These people flee their own Country because of the trouble & strife Islam is causing. They are coming here because we have a good way of life & they want to change it to mirror where they came from under an Islamic Caliph. Not on!
Cont.

Xin loi, I was forced into a 3 hour wait.
Cont.
4. Our unsustainable social economic environmental model is the underlying problem.

Exactly. The reason our Economy is unsustainable is because the money we need for Health, Education, Infrastructure, The homeless is being squandered needlessly on these illegal people & Overseas Aid that only benefits the CEO’s administering it.

5. This processing should be quick and efficient and take no more than three months.
Agreed. Proviso. Those people without Papers & Passports are to be returned immediately. Also they must explain , in detail, how much & to whom they paid to get on the boats. If they are unwilling to provide an explanation then they must be rejected.

3. A clear majority of Australian voters believe that asylum seekers should be "processed" in Australia.

This is bull dust. The Sooky la la groups keep pushing this line, but it’s not true. Do you think on having a referendum on that subject at the next election would be a good idea?

Basically, in your point 1. you ask Why is it Australia’s problem & why should Australia save them? In your point 2. again you ask Why we should do this. In your point 3. you claim we are already sharing more than our fair share, but I wonder about your genuineness implying by that that we might have any obligation at all to give any aid to anyone – after all you did say that it is “aid that is much needed for Australian’s health, school, infrastructure & homeless” … it’s aid that according to you is “wasted on these boat people” “ruining Australia”.

You say “charity begins at home and Australia MUST look after its own people first”. (Perhaps this means you would support a major expansion of public housing here then – go on, surprise me!)

I think it is very safe to conclude that you have only disdain for “sentiment and undying compassion”, so I won’t attempt to answer you by explaining why that is actually the very best reason for giving aid – you would never understand it. And I won’t address your point 3 at all because you are clearly so insincere about it, although I would love to know on what basis you pretend (given the above quotes) that you think Australia’s aid effort is anything remotely approaching “fair” already.
Contd.
@landrights4all
Chris Baulman

Jayb Re your 1 & 2, I will just say why I think Australia should increase it’s aid & should expand its refugee intake. As to how this could be sustainable & harmonious I have already outlined in the NTW link. I wish I could appeal to your compassion, but you've ruled that out. So at the risk of encouraging selfish motives, which are quite contrary to the motive of compassion in which I believe, I'll say that I think our security against global war is threatened by our 'me first' 'this is mine, you can't have any' childishness.

In the past we've depended on our ability to exploit other nations for our wealth & to build our defensive & aggressive strength. That has largely been the way of the world for millennia – survival of the fittest - but it is unsustainable. Instead of bows &arrows or 303s, now every Tom Dick and Harry is getting nuclear capacity & it’s more important than ever to finally grow up & become fully human if we're to survive much longer. Fortunately that animal law is only one part of our nature as humans.

Oppressed, exploited people will not accept injustice or such vast inequality as is evident between “us & them”. We urgently need a new way for all of us to be able to enjoy a good life – a way that's not based on the competition which lies at the heart of “business” as usual, continually creating winners and losers & channeling wealth upwards (to us).

Ps – A referendum on this is not going to happen. In any event, I would'nt be interested in a referendum because, whether it favoured your position or mine, the effect would be to create political division & the same win/lose competition that I say we must avoid, if not for the sake of compassion for the poor, then for our selfish security’s sake. We need solutions that everyone can support or we'll have war, and we can no longer afford that (if indeed we ever could).

@landrights4all
Chris Baulman

My point 3. Aid above our fair share. Yes we do. Australia, according to a recent report is the 8th. richest Nation but we rank 3rd. in the World for Aid. Australia has only a small population from which to draw its revenue from. It is an extremely large country with huge distances between cities therefore our infrastructure cost is extremely high.

Should we just dump Illegal immigrants & Boat People into these gaps? No. It just wouldn’t & doesn’t work. This has been tried.
In the 60’s the Government closed many of the outback Aboriginal Tribes & moved them, lock, stock & barrel, to the coast. These people had no idea about electricity, toilets, houses, community living, & the ocean. The Government brought up many housed in Ayr (one town) then moved these people in & left them. Soon people started seeing fires under the houses & legs. What had happened is that the electricity had been cut off because they couldn’t or didn’t pay. (Some couldn’t speak English) so they just tore up the floor & wall boards & burnt them to cook their food. There were fights on every street corner every night with the local Murris (Let me explain the difference between Murries & Burries) Murries are Islander, sons of Kanakas, or Murry Islanders. Burries come from the Bush, inland. The problem still isn’t solved to this day. The children of the Burries & now the children of the Murries are causing the unrest, (drunkenness, break & enters, fighting & fornicating in the streets) Don’t say it doesn’t happen. I have witnesse4d it day after day when I lived in Townsville.
Cont.

Cont.
Your idea of just taking as many Islamic people into Australia would have the same effect. The Islamic Culture is incompatible with Western Culture. Some examples. There is a town in Victoria that has been taken to the UN because they refused to put a 2 metre high no see through fence around the Council swimming pool to shield the eyes of the local Muslims from the sight of “naked people.” They wanted 2 days a week set aside for Muslims only. One day for Men only & one for women & children only. The Council refused. In WA in the late 70’s a town voted in a Muslim majority Council. The first thing they did was close the Beaches, segregate the schools & the Council pool, and then they changed the names of the streets to Islamic names. The WA Government had to step in & disband the Council. Just look at the problems in Europe & the UK caused by the Cultural divide. Do you want that here?

You say I have no compassion. Yes I do, but it is tempered with the reality of what can & cannot be achieved peacefully within the confines of an Australian way of life. Other Culture have assimilated, even the Asians. Although most of them were Catholic or Buddhists. Buddhism isn’t strictly a religion. Asians made an effort to assimilate into Australian Culture. Muslims don’t & won’t, then slowly make demands to introduce Shari a Law into Australia. Do you want Australia to end up similar to the Countries from which they fled? Could you handle an Islamic way of life?
Cont.

Cont
LR4A: In the past we've depended on our ability to exploit other nations for our wealth & to build our defensive & aggressive strength. That has largely been the way of the world for millennia.
I assume that you are talking about the Old British Empire here. Well that has collapsed as has the rest of the European Powers. Australia has never been a Colonial Power & I can’t see us being one in the future. That style of Governance has long since seen it days in the West. Now the World has a new rising type of Colonial Power re-emerging. The Caliphate. Do you support having an Australian Caliphate?

LR4A: I wouldn’t be interested in a referendum because, whether it favoured your position or mine, the effect would be to create political division.

Strange that. Most people of your ilk profess the overwhelming majority of Australians demand an increase in acceptance of Illegal Immigrants & Boat people but when asked to put it to the test they baulk. Why is that? As for creating a divide. I don’t see that. Australia, being a democratic Country has to abide by the referendum & accept the decision of the majority of people.

LR4A: Oppressed, exploited people will not accept injustice or such vast inequality as is evident between “us & them”.

Just who is oppressing them, Australia, the UK, the US or Fellow Islamists? They are accepting injustice by their own Islamic people. They refuse to do anything about it & leave only to create problems for the people they flee to where-ever they go. Are these people not capable of creating their own wealth in their own country? After all they have most of the World’s richest families who live in numerous palaces & drive Gold & Silver plated 4X4’s.

Cont

Cont. after an hours delay.

LR4A: I'll say that I think our security against global war is threatened by our 'me first' 'this is mine,

So, are you saying that these people who pay an average of $23000 to bribe people to illegally bring them across multiple boarders will wage War on Australia if we don’t let them turn Australia into a Caliphate?

Arr, do you mind answering my queries. You seem to ignore or deflect them, which seems to be the usual ploy of dedicated Islamists.

So you are happy to claim we are doing our “fair share” because we are 3rd? Why do you assume that the wealthy nations ahead of us are behaving fairly? “Fair” isn’t related to 1st 2nd or 3rd when all are miserley – fair, in my mind it is about justice. If someone is starving & you could help because you have 10 times more than you need, you don’t give them a crumb & say you are being “fair”. Do you realise that for every $100 you earn, you are giving 34c in aid. You are saying that’s “fair” because it is more than others give. That’s a very strange morality.

... dump Illegal immigrants into these gaps?
Heard of Schoenhauer’s 38 dishonest ways to argue – that is No3. Ignoring my proposition. I won’t play your game by repeating it. It is also No24 of the 38.

Be honest – this isn’t about any particular race of refugees – you would argue against ANY refugees of any culture who you though might require you to move over a bit. For you it’s about charity beginning at home and looking after our own. Raising “Aborigines” and “Muslim culture” is a red herring – see No18.

Re the cultural divide, my proposition would clearly incorporate people into the neighbourhood, not leave them isolated in enclaves within Australia, lonely and trapped in their own culture.
Contd

Re exploitation – You obviously like to believe that exploitation stopped with the collapse of “the empire”. we exploit workers around the world and grab their land for our food & resources & leave them devastated & poisoned. Don’t you read the reports from agencies and humn rights watchers around the world? Our standard of living depends on exploitation in a big way.

The rich world exploits the poor world mercilessly. This is the war which is ahead if we keep going as we have been. If we treated the poor & the land, both ours & theirs, justly we would have to live very differently. If we lived justly their own economic & political masters would have far less incentive from kick backs to act as our agents in the market place. On our behalf they approve our mining leases & sell off their peoples’ traditional lands to multinationals to produce things we consumers want for next to nothing. That’s how they get their gold plated cars. We owe huge compensation & a fair go - & the crooks driving gold plated cars bought with kickbacks on deals with us should be brought to justice – but their greed doesn’t excuse ours.

In praising “democracy” you also seem to forget your own bitterness when your party loses a political competition. The way we do democracy breeds resentment & hatred, not the acceptance you pretend comes from majority decisions. Let’s don’t pretend “democracy” is “fair” – it’s just the guy with the biggest stick wins. The solution doesn’t rest in politics – voters aren’t going to vote for a lower standard of living. The solution lies in the prospect of a more secure and happier life through becoming a more compassionate people. I need to sign off on this now – I think we must disagree.

LR4A: we exploit workers around the world and grab their land for our food & resources & leave them devastated & poisoned.

At last common ground. I do believe that Multi-National Companies should be compelled by Law to act in 3rd. World Countries as they are compelled to act in their own. EG; Clean Rivers, re-a forestation, a pay system that pays equlivent to the local wage structure, etc. Religious & Do-Gooder Groups should be kept well away from native peoples. The land & the native people must be left without contact from the outside world of any description. See there are things we have in common. Religious conversion & the subsequent land theft is killing these people off.

LR4A: For you it’s about charity beginning at home and looking after our own.

Unashamedly, YES. We cannot even think about looking after other people if we cannot look after ourselves. We are not at the moment judging by the state of Australia’s Health & Education Systems. Our basic infrastructure, roads, rail, Air & Sea Ports are 3rd World standard.

LR4A: Heard of Schoenhauer’s 38 dishonest ways to argue – that is No3. Ignoring my proposition. I won’t play your game by repeating it. It is also No24 of the 38.

No I haven’t, but obviously you have, & are using it liberally in this debate. You have deflected all of my questions so far. Please answer the questions.

LR4A: you would argue against ANY refugees of any culture who you though might require you to move over a bit.

It’s not “a bit” I’m worried about. Sharia Law isn’t “a bit.” For me or any Australian for that matter, even for the previous set of immigrants.
Cont.

cont.
LR4A: Re the cultural divide, my proposition would clearly incorporate people into the neighbourhood, not leave them isolated in enclaves within Australia, lonely and trapped in their own culture.

You have missed the point entirely. The Government went to great pains to disperse the Aboriginals around the communities. They took great pains to avoid putting them into enclaves. The problem was, as I explained previously, that these Aboriginals were taken from a lifestyle in the bush that they had enjoyed for thousands of years & dumped in the 21 st. Century a world they knew nothing about. It didn’t work & still hasn’t worked.

These people are coming from Muslim states that are still living as they were 4000 years ago. They have a religion that still adheres to traditions, beliefs & a culture that is1400 years old and they refuse to change. In fact they demand that we change our traditions, beliefs & a culture to suit them.

LR4A: In praising “democracy” you also seem to forget your own bitterness when your party loses a political competition. The way we do democracy breeds resentment & hatred, not the acceptance you pretend comes from majority decisions.

I don’t have a “Political Party” I support anyone who I think may try to make a difference. At the Moment it happens to be Bob Katter, but that could change if someone better came along. Resentment & Hatred.? I don’t think so. Some people will be disgruntled, for sure, but the decision is accepted. Resentment & Hatred, if you don’t get your own way, is predominantly a Middle Eastern thing for the most part, that’s why they are at each other’s throats all the time.

LR4A: Let’s don’t pretend “democracy” is “fair” – it’s just the guy with the biggest stick wins. The solution doesn’t rest in politics – voters aren’t going to vote for a lower standard of living.

You obviously have something against Democracy. Your alternate, “Sharia Law “ is totally unacceptable in a Western Society context.
Cont.

Western Aid is considered to be, Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah & is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens. Muslims consider the whole World to be a Muslim State, or, belonging to Allah. Therefore Western Aid is considered by Muslims as a mandatory Tax to be paid by the West to Muslims.

In the late 70’s Ayatollah Roholla Khomeini made a speech in WA exhorting all Muslims to get as many of their families into Australia as they could. Saying that Australia is a Religious desert & ripe to conversion to Islam.

Now let’s get back to the Questions you have refused to answer so far.
1. Do you want Australia to end up similar to the Countries from which they fled?
2. Would you like to see Australia become an Islamic Caliphate?
3. Could you handle an Islamic way of life under Sharia Law?
4. Have you put in to foster an Islamic family in your home?
5. Are you a Muslim?
6.
Please don’t use your, “Schoenhouser 38 way to argue dishonestly.”

Well LR4A I am sorely disappointed you are not continuing our discussion. I'll repeat the questions below, just in case you wish to answer them. If you don't of course we will all know that I have called you bluff.

Now let’s get back to the Questions you have refused to answer so far.
1. Do you want Australia to end up similar to the Countries from which they fled?
2. Would you like to see Australia become an Islamic Caliphate?
3. Could you handle an Islamic way of life under Sharia Law?
4. Have you put in to foster an Islamic family in your home?
5. Are you a Muslim?
6. Do you feel that you have been outed.
Please don’t use your, “Schoenhouser 38 way to argue dishonestly.”

lr4a, I am deeply offended by your refusal to answer my questions & debate this issue with me. Do you have something to hide?