Leslie,

I am interested to know how the slow surface bound diesel subs would be useful in containing China's ambitions in the south china sea?

Similarly Australia's vast coast line and needs fast subs, and the new Virginia class compete very effectively with the Collins class subs with respect to stealth.

Shadow minister,

I am interested to know what you think Australia needs submarines for? What capabilities do we need?

You are incorrect about the Virginia competing with the Collins class In regards to stealth. You will find that any nuclear powered sub, which requires cooling pumps running at ALL times will be much noisier than a conventional on batteries.

I agree that nuclear has advantages over conventional, such as speed, power and range, but if these attributes are not required for our doctrine, what is the point? You will have to convince me of the strategy befor you can sell me on these boats.

Shadow Minister
Disregard the sensational press reports about the Collins. Its performance remains classified, but is known to the US strategic planners. Because of its superior stealth it can come close to China undetected, and will be employed in that role in the Containment of China.Leslie

Leslie and Stezza,

The work on silencing the Nuclear subs has included using natural convection cooling and low noise pumps almost to the point that at low speed the greatest sources of noise are the personnel. Once the subs move much faster than 4 knots the noise from friction of the water on the surface eclipses everything else.

Stealth covers more than just the absolute measurement of the motionless submerged vessel in the latter part of WWII the greatest sub killers were the aircraft that caught the subs on the surface. The ability to move quickly with no projecting snorkel to breath is a huge advantage.

Submarines are offensive weapons designed to attack some distance off shore. Diesels are useful for coastal defence, but using them for large areas or extended ranges from dock beyond the 25000 km of Australian shore line to the China sea is wildly optimistic.

The reason the US and British fleets contain only nuclear subs is the need to project force long distance.

The morons argue about which Submarine is better while their Govts make them slaves to the banking,military industrial,complex.

China,Russia,Syria and Iran are not our enemies.Psychopathic ,power hungry,war mongering lunatics have always been the enemy of all humanity.Nothing has changed in the last 5000 yrs.

Shadow Minister
Thanks for the rational debate which is not the norm in these open forums.
Arjay: however sincere, your emotional outburst does not help expose the "war mongers". If you had followed the exchanges, you would have seen that a couple of us "morons" have tried to cut through the propaganda and provide evidence to warn about the Containment of China. Leslie