I admit that I am not an expert in the field, however I am happy to debate any strategy that can contribute to the defense of our country. I really believe that self-reliance in defense is needed, even with the extra costs associated with allowing politicians near it. I see our politicians as the lesser of two evils compared to foreign politicians or private companies (same thing?). The author uses the word facts in his title, but seems to only use the ones that support his agenda. I have no agenda and only wish to discuss the facts of this debate to achieve the best outcomes for Australia.

Robert LePage wrote:

>>They are a weapon of offence and unless we are contemplating invading any more countries, would seem to be a completely unnecessary addition to the navy.>>

Australia relies heavily on seaborn trade and has long supply lines. It needs the ability to defend those sea lanes. Submarines are the best option.

I agree that "Son of Collins" is the worst possible option.

I also agree that by 2030 diesel submarines will be too vulnerable.

Acquiring nuclear submarines from the US is probably the best option.

At the same time I think Australia should ditch the F35. Drones will make it obsolete by 2030 at the very latest.

Stezza wrote:

>>I really believe that self-reliance in defense is needed,…>>

I don’t think that is even remotely feasible in Australia's case.

However I do think Australia should be investing in the technology that will enable it to build nuclear weaponry as a backstop.

">>I really believe that self-reliance in defense is needed,…>>

I don’t think that is even remotely feasible in Australia's case.

However I do think Australia should be investing in the technology that will enable it to build nuclear weaponry as a backstop."

Well that would be the ultimate self-reliance wouldnt it? I agree with your general predictions, but not sure about the timelines, what do you propose would make either the subs or f35 obsolete? With 2030 not far away in military terms competitive technologies would be at least the planning stage. Also don't forget that for nuclear weaponry requires delivery mechanisms that will suffer from the same risks of becoming obsolete.

Drone submarines seem like the ideal choice.

mac wrote:

>>Drone submarines seem like the ideal choice.>>

Unmanned autonomous submarines are under development

See:

New Unmanned Baby Submarine To Protect Coastal Waters

http://www.defencetalk.com/unmanned-baby-submarine-protect-coastal-waters-20359/

So are unmanned gunboats

See:

U.S. 'mulls buying Israeli robot gunboats'

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2012/10/29/US-mulls-buying-Israeli-robot-gunboats/UPI-39311351527487/

At the rate we're progressing, soon there'll be no need for humans.

That should make the Greens happy.