Unless we stop this war mongering insanity,forget about the future.The Oligarchs are playing their war games and we just fall in line.

First of all manufacture your enemy, or even better pick a fight with some underpowered country then bomb the life out of its populace just to show the world that you are indeed the chosen country. Australia is not really a prime mover in this world game but to hedge our bets we join with America who in the last 235 years have made an art form of bludgeoning countries into submission through trade sanctions, subversion and military murder.

Is Australia hell-bent on classing other countries as future enemies or are we happy to be told who they are going to be.

We are now locked into trade agreements and friendly co-operation with the Asian bloc countries including China.

So who is it that we want as enemies or indeed who wants us as an enemy. Seems a bit too simplistic doesn't it, and it is, because we do not maintain a truly independent foreign policy. We are predominantly an extension of American foreign policy; we hang on to the apron strings of corporate America and their military industrial complex. The American government is merely the conduit by which the Australian politic is advised which pawn and when to move it.

Consider the fact of Pine Gap, which is reported to be the most powerful and comprehensive surveillance facility outside of America, a facility which was used in support of American warmongering in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and currently Pakistan, Iraq and Iran. Refer: “Killing Hope” William Blum.

We do not need military submarines of any sort. If the security of the American military bases in Australia is ever challenged make no mistake, they would blockade Australia in defence of these facilities.

We should work very hard at being an indispensible part of the Asian bloc and if ever possible tell America to pack up its war toys and go home. The best hope for the world is for a balance of power sharing between Asia, Europe and America; otherwise the world will continue to be bludgeoned by the failed state of America and its huge nuclear and military superiority.
Den71

stevenmeyer,

Very interesting.

The problem for our strategic planners is whether to delay replacing the Collins class until drone technology is available.

I have to say that the prospect of autonomous drone subs is rather scary.
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Diesel powered submarines are to naval warfare what propeller powered aircraft are to air warfare. Spending $40bn on submarines that will be obsolete when they hit the water is madness when nuclear subs can be obtained for half the cost.

As for buying subs, they are a very effective deterrent against invasion, and if the government is in anyway serious about the defense of the realm, then this cannot be put off any further.

However, with Labor being beholden to the greens, we will probably get solar powered subs that are no threat to anyone.

Stezza,

I agree with most of your comments, it's probable that the "Great Australian Cultural Cringe" is operating and the Collins class subs are not the disaster that's usually claimed by commentators, however, without technical expertise it's impossible to evaluate the arguments presented. Apparently it's been forgotten---the Americans suffered a series of spectacular failures in the early stages of the Space Race with the Soviet Union, in the same situation Australians would probably have given up.

Australia was a pioneer in space technology until our politicians (mostly lawyers) decided that the whole effort was a waste of time.

We should be as self reliant as technically possible, during the early days of WW2, with no significant defence industries Australia depended on foreign suppliers and our "Great and Powerful Friend" the UK had other priorities, we were very lucky that the Americans made the strategic decision to base their armed forces here. Many of the comments on this subject seem more concerned with the technical aspect of defence than the strategic and political decisions our "allies' might make to refuse supply of materiel, or place Australia at the bottom of their list of priorities. It's happened before.

Why cant Shadow Minister and others grasp the simple basic fact that the Collins diesel sub is as Stezza points out " one of the stealthest and potent ,,, in the world". As it can get close to China undetected, it will be a subservient Australia's contribution to America's containment of China policy. Leslie