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The Forum > Article Comments > The worst and the best of mankind > Comments

The worst and the best of mankind : Comments

By Vic Alhadeff, published 5/9/2012

The episode involved almost one-third of the 42,000 French Jews sent to the death camps in 1942. A total of 76,000 were deported; 2500 survived.

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Rhian,
I refuse to interact with people like you, being an"Anti Nazi" is like admitting you're a child molester, end of discussion...oh actually did you ever meet Yigael Gluckstein (aka Tony Cliff), your leader? Probably not.
Steven,
No, I don't "deny" anything, I take the Nazis of expressed justifications for the treatment of Jews at face value, Goebbels said straight up that he was of the opinion that 60% of Jews would need to be "liquidated" and that the methods being employed by Globocnik and others would be "subtle" but not pleasant.
That's not the point of my posts, which is the greater existential threat to Jews? Islam and non White immigration or European Nationalism? Is an unstable, broke, Europe riven by ethnic conflict really in the interests of Jews? Why would Vic Alhadeff make a point of associating what amounts to an Anti Fascist and anti totalitarian stream in 2012's Nationalist milieu with the events of 70 years ago? As I said, he's probably not well informed on the issues so the article comes off as gratuitous or dishonest.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 3:04:58 PM
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Jay

Actually, I did meet Tony Cliff. I never agreed with his politics, though. Like I said, the anti-Nazi movement was, and is, a broad church.

The point of the article is to “remain alert so that we detect monstrosity under its guises”. That would include Islamic fascism no less than the nationalist variety you seem to admire.
Posted by Rhian, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 3:18:25 PM
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@Rhian
You say in your reply to Jay, The point of the article is to “remain alert so that we detect monstrosity under its guises”. That would include Islamic fascism no less than the nationalist variety you seem to admire.
And Zionism?
By every account I have ever come across, what happened in the old Winter Velodrome in Paris was an unspeakable horror.
As is Gaza and the whole of the occupied West Bank today.
I echo what was reportedly said by French President François Hollande: "We're here to fight the battle against oblivion and testify what barbarity is capable of. Ignorance is the source of many abuses."
Ignorance is the source of many abuses. We could all do worse than to remember that.
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 4:39:07 PM
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Halduell

I agree that the Palestinians’ suffering is no less worthy of our concern than the Jews, and Israel’s injustices and oppression deserve condemnation. I could add a very long list of other places and peoples. I think the case of Nazi anti-Semitism and the emergence of far-right parties in Europe are instructive for us because they are rooted in a culture and society much like our own. As Noelreg says “How the Holocaust could occur in what was meant to be a cultured and advance part of the world is difficult to comprehend”

Are you also implying that there is moral equivalence between the Holocaust and Zionism? If so, I disagree
Posted by Rhian, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 5:02:47 PM
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There is no comparison between Gaza and the Holocaust and it is offensive to suggest so. I'm deleting some of the comments above in the light of Eatock v Bolt. They would certainly be offensive to Vic and are aimed at him citing race and I have no confidence that good faith is involved.
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 7:50:41 PM
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Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek elevation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people through national identity. They are united by suprapersonal connections of ancestry and culture through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community through discipline, indoctrination, physical training, and eugenics. Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.

Wikipedia
Posted by csteele, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 11:44:45 PM
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