Dear Tony,

If we invent and use vaccines in our capacity as God, then there is no problem. However, we normally do that in our capacity of humans.

There is free will - and there are the implications of using this free will, not all necessarily pleasant.

Now I'd like to relate to some of the things you wrote to FreeSpirit:

<<Then you support a parents right to child abuse and murder.>>

I support a parents' freedom to protect his/her child's spirit, even when it means that the body has to go. If the parent had no selfish motive, then this is neither murder nor immoral.

<<gravely immoral not to mention illegal?>>

You got your priorities upside down - is the law above morality??

<<Wouldn't I still be exactly the same kind of a person if I was a Jehovah's Witness and I refused the treatment because of my religious beliefs?>>

It's not about you and your beliefs - it's about protecting your child's best interests, who chose among all potential parents to be born to Jehovah's witnesses. You would then only act as his/her agent as long as s/he cannot yet speak up to fend him/herself.

<<Shouldn't a person's life - their most fundamental human right>>

Why? What nonsense!

So-called "rights" are human creation, there's nothing fundamental about them.

<<always be held in higher regard than another person's religious beliefs?>>

It's not religious beliefs which are at stake, but rather parents' love to their child and the wish to protect him/her from spiritual harm.

<<Thuggee cult who murdered and robbed travelers in honor of Kali>>

I wonder whether they did so indeed in honour of Kali, or in order to procure benefits from Her. The former is justified, the later isn't.

<<tragic loss of life>>

We all die, eventually: what's better than to die for a spiritual cause!

<<nobody has ever died from not being religious enough>>

By not realizing our divine true nature, by believing that we are humans instead, we do it all the time!

Yuyutsu, you're either a troll, or a dangerous human being that should be locked up. The thought that you would place subjective morals above someone's life, that you can justify murder as long as it's honouring one's god or beliefs, and calling that same murder dying for spiritual cause, is sickening. You're telling me that if someone murdered your wife and told you, "hey, God said it would purify my soul," that you would just stand by? We are nothing but humans, there is nothing more or less to us than that, and that is a fact, regardless of what you believe. Just because you believe it, supporting by your subjective and sycophantic morals, does not make it truth. That is, spirituality, religion, all of that - just because you believe it, it doesn't make it truth. And the way you would justify murder with it is sickening. I never ever thought I'd resort to Godwin's law myself, but I think in this circumstance it applies. Look it up to see someone else who used their beliefs to justify murder. And then tell me that he is "spiritually pure."

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong, Yuyutsu. I don't care how you want to spin it, what you're claiming is truth is just your own deluded belief, and the same with FreeSpirit. I'm not normally this aggressive, so I apologise, but what you've just said is very disturbing, and I'm even wondering if I should show the police.

Dear Martin,

The bible's 6th commandment is wrongly translated as "thou shalt not kill": the original text, however, is "thou shalt not murder".

What makes murder different than killing?

The bible, for example, as well as several countries today, allows a court-of-law to execute certain criminals and modern society allows soldiers to kill in battle and often also accepts euthanasia. So what's the difference?

- The difference is the selfish intention or the lack thereof.

I do not support murder. My morals are not merely subjective, but also based on scriptures many thousands of years old and careful philosophical analysis.

It is often considered a virtue to sacrifice a limb in order to save a life (doctors do it routinely), so what's wrong then about sacrificing one's body in order to save one's spirit? I do not take it lightly, but in some rare cases it is the best one can do.

The foremost spiritual principle is that of Non-violence. Although in our day and age most cases of taking a life are violent and selfishly-motivated, that need not always be the case and the occasional case of compassionate killing may occur.

The basis for morality is Hillel's golden rule, which I follow the best I can, that states: "What you hate done to yourself, do not do unto others".

If I were, for example, a helpless baby who cannot talk and believed (rightly or wrongly, that's not the issue, I don't) that a blood transfusion is worse than death, then I would be most thankful to my parents for taking away my life before the doctors could get me and do a larger damage. Moreover, I would be likely to deliberately choose parents who believe the same so they can protect me. According to Hillel, such a parent who saves one's child, is acting in a perfectly moral manner.

Like it or not, fortunately in Australia people cannot be locked up for their religious beliefs. I have never killed anyone, nor do I have any such intentions. Moreover, being vegetarian I don't even kill animals while you probably do.

I'm not going to debate you, Yuyutsu. You are wrong, because your beliefs are only that: your beliefs. You believing does not make what you believe in the truth. If you deny children life-saving medical treatments or vaccines, you ARE abusing them, and I'm sure corrective measures will be taken if anyone catches on. I do pity any children you might have, though, but there is little I can do for now short of helping to properly educate people so they don't become so morally self-righteous like yourself. I look forward to a day when religion is not an excuse for anything anymore, when I can finally stop being so outraged as I am right now.

Dear Martin,

<<I look forward to a day when religion is not an excuse for anything anymore>>

Me too.

People who use religion as a convenient excuse for doing something wrong or for failing to do something right, are abusing the name of God.

The reason the world exists, the reason humans exist and are alive, is so that we can use this time and space, this universe, to practice religion, or in other words, so that we may come closer to God. Besides that, existence is daft.

Let me clarify: in order to practice religion, one need not belong to a formal religious group and one need not hold specific religious beliefs. Both may help at some stage, but are not of absolute necessity. One cannot avoid religion, one can only choose to progress slower or faster. One cannot avoid God and one cannot indefinitely avoid being drawn towards God, because there is nothing else but God.

<<If you deny children life-saving medical treatments or vaccines, you ARE abusing them>>

This must be a misunderstanding: I never advocated denying children the above, which indeed would be a form of abuse - I do consider it, however, the duty of parents to protect their children against unscrupulous doctors and governments who wish to harm their spirit in the name of humanism. It is a parent's duty to be their child's mouth so long as their child cannot yet speak up and protest.

In any case, you have nothing to worry about or fear that you might breach the above duty, you don't even need to think twice: such religious souls who care about spiritual principles more than about maintaining a physical body at all costs, will avoid like a fire being born to you (or in general, to humanist parents); they would simply never become attracted to your belief-system and your mode of life, hence they will seek to be born to parents who can better care for them!

Yuyutsu,

How can we become closer to God if we are God?

If we are God, then we are as close as we can be.

Or do you mean that we're here to become closer to the realisation that we are God?