Yuyutsu,

In the past you have stated that "we" (as in humanity and everything) are God. If we are God and we possess the ingenuity to develop vaccines, why should we reject them on spiritual grounds?

Dear Martin

'You have to be able to PROVE claims like these if you expect people to accept them as truth.'

It is not for me to prove anything and I don't 'expect' anything. You can take it or leave it. The truth is what it is for all to see when they are ready to see it. The fact that you are not bored with coming back again and again may well be because you are not yet at a stage to recognise that you are doing so.

Many people have memories of past lives and even carry wounds from past lives with them into this one to be healed. Many people have illness and disease in this life due to past lives also. This has been verified, but the question would be is this verification acceptable to you. From your comments I would suggest probably not. So, how do we then deem what level of verification makes something a fact?

'A child, for example, suffering from cancer, who is denied treatment because her parents believe it will damage her spiritually, still has the right to that treatment because the proven facts of the treatment overrule the postulated beliefs.'

Who gets to make the decision to override the parents beliefs? Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that I wouldn't get medical help if one of my children were ill. I do however, support a parents right to refuse such treatment if they believe that it will damage their child spiritually. What I am getting at is that parents, (one would hope) love their children and have their best interests at heart. Faith can be very powerful and if parents hold the spiritual health of their child as the most important duty to that child, who has the right to override that? In this situation surely the parents would not see their stance as impeding the rights of others but more likely protecting the rights of their child. Anyway why should physical health be held in higher regard than spiritual health?

Dear Martin,but this is a question of religious values and therefore is independent of the facts...

While I was out and trying to save on my daily message-quota, FreeSpirit has already answered for me. I stand behind each of his/her words. Thank you!

<<what do you think penguins taste like?>>

I don't. No thoughts of this nature cross my mind.

Dear Poirot,

<<If we are God and we possess the ingenuity to develop vaccines, why should we reject them on spiritual grounds?>>

Yes, we ARE God - we are not BETTER than God. From a spiritual perspective, willfulness, or the thought that 'I can do better than God', can be quite dangerous.

The vaccine itself is not a spiritual problem (if the anti-vaccine movement is correct, then it may pose a medical problem, but I'm not personally into that discussion), but the intention and attempt to change the course of our lives so willfully, is.

Dear McReal,

<<What do you propose or hypothesis are the "spiritual implications of vaccinations"??>>

Increased willfulness; Lack of faith; Rejection of God, trusting one's own power and intellect instead; Placing the emphasis on matter rather than spirit; Increased technological dependence on society (which as we know, is nowadays materialistic and anti-religious).

<<but this is a question of religious values and therefore is independent of the facts... What specific 'religious values'??>>

Cleanliness; Faith; Contentment; Surrender to God; and if forced-vaccinations are on the table, then also Non-violence.

Dear Tony,

As explained above, it's not the chemicals, but their source and one's attitude.

Ouija boards are used by impure people to call on impure spirits.

>>Many people have memories of past lives and even carry wounds from past lives with them into this one to be healed. Many people have illness and disease in this life due to past lives also.<<

Really? What evidence do you have to support this claim? Please note that while the testimony of some New-Ager claiming to have been Queen Nefertiti of Egypt might be regarded as a form of evidence it also provides evidence for opposing hypotheses like the New-Ager being delusional or the New-Ager being a charlatan. So what evidence can you bring to the table aside from dubious personal testimonies?

>>I do however, support a parents right to refuse such treatment if they believe that it will damage their child spiritually.<<

Then you support a parents right to child abuse and murder. Can faith - no matter how powerful it may be - legitimately be used to excuse actions that would normally be considered gravely immoral not to mention illegal? If I had a child that suffered a severe laceration and lost so much blood that a blood transfusion - a safe effective and proven treatment - was required to save their life and I refused and just let them bleed to death on the operating table what kind of person would I be? Wouldn't I still be exactly the same kind of a person if I was a Jehovah's Witness and I refused the treatment because of my religious beliefs? Shouldn't a person's life - their most fundamental human right - always be held in higher regard than another person's religious beliefs? If not I'd be interested to know how you feel about the Thuggee cult who murdered and robbed travelers in honor of Kali. Murdering strangers because of your strongly held religious beliefs is a little bit different to knowingly and willingly allowing your child to die from a preventable malady. But common to both situations is the tragic loss of life that would not occur if certain people didn't hold spiritual health in higher regard than physical health.

TBC

>>Anyway why should physical health be held in higher regard than spiritual health?<<

For the reasons I alluded to above: when you start letting people make decisions about who gets to live and who gets to die on the basis of their religious beliefs you are treading on very thin ice.

And because physical health matters: it has tangible outcomes. People with poor physical health suffer from disadvantage and lowered quality of life. In the worst case scenario it is terminal. Whereas spiritual health doesn't appear to have the same affect: atheists don't suffer because of their poor spiritual health and religious people don't seem to gain any benefits from their good spiritual health. And nobody has ever died from not being religious enough. At least not since they stopped burning heretics.

Cheers,

Tony

>>Yes, we ARE God - we are not BETTER than God.<<

So vaccines are the work of God. If we ARE God then inventing and using vaccines doesn't mean we're undermining God or placing ourselves above it: we are simply carrying out God's work.

>>The vaccine itself is not a spiritual problem (if the anti-vaccine movement is correct, then it may pose a medical problem, but I'm not personally into that discussion), but the intention and attempt to change the course of our lives so willfully, is.<<

Really? God endowed us with free will and the ingenuity to create things like vaccines but he doesn't want us to exercise our free will or utilise our ingenuity? Are you sure about that? Well you're wrong: as you've pointed out before we are all God and I for one give a big thumbs up to humans using their free will and ingenuity. And I reckon that a lot of the other people who are also God will agree with me.

Cheers,

Tony