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The Forum > Article Comments > 42 a poor alternative to Jesus > Comments

42 a poor alternative to Jesus : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 24/4/2012

Atheism is busy framing the answers, but it doesn't understand what the question is.

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david f,
Jesus quote “No one comes to the Father but by me” (John 14:6) refers to a spiritual reality not a physical. To come to God we need a spiritual identity with the character and attitudes of Christ. Unless one accepts the character and attitudes of Christ he is no where near the character Of God. Ignorance of the spiritual is demonstrated in misquotation by implying a spatial material reality. Your false premise is based on a lack of logic in spiritual reality.

Life has meaning as defined by Genesis 1
1. Humanity reaches highest ideals if its character is the image of God. Admiration and estolling of good character - Love God
2. Humanity takes responsibility to manage well the living Planet
3. Human acts responsibly towards nurturing and providing for family - Love neighbour
4. Rule over the Earth and its resources creatively and responsibly

King Solomon states in Ecclesiastes states: The personal persuit to accumulate wealth, or to merely seek pleasure, to be hungry for power, to posess all knowledge, to be addicted to work, to seek self glory - all is vanity, and is meaningless. He says the conclusion of the matter is: Have respect for God and keep the commandments is the whole duty of man. Eccl 11: 13.

Remember God is spiritual identified in character not physical as identified by science
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:07:05 PM
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Dear Josephus,

I don't think there is such a thing as a spiritual reality. Reality manifests itself as something susceptible to sense impressions. Our sense impressions may be amplified by the use of telescopes, microscopes or other instrumentation.

There is no physical evidence for the existence of a spiritual dimension. I have enough trying to understand what exists in reality without concerning myself with the spiritual. Spiritual is a word which I interpret as beyond reality. Therefore spiritual reality is an oxymoron since it combines reality with a concept which doesn't exist in reality.

Your remarks from genesis are problematic.

You wrote: "Life has meaning as defined by Genesis 1

1. Humanity reaches highest ideals if its character is the image of God."

I certainly wouldn't want to be the image of a nasty character who would tell Abraham to murder his own son and then subjects his own son to a tortured death in the New Testament. I am too good a person to model myself after such a beastly entity. I would neither commit mass murder nor incite others to do it as God does in the Book of Joshua.

You also wrote: "4. Rule over the Earth and its resources creatively and responsibly."

Possibly we can live sustainably when we realise we don't rule over the earth but are only one of the many species found on it.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:48:55 PM
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Josephus said "a lack of logic in spiritual reality"

hehehehe

That makes as much sense as saying you're not phylogenetically classifying unicorns properly.
Posted by hadz, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 1:07:35 PM
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Dear David,

"I don't think there is such a thing as a spiritual reality."

- Indeed there are no separate realities, only one - however, it is not material.

"Reality manifests itself as something susceptible to sense impressions."

- There is no logical reason to believe that the human senses can capture reality: the senses (and the brain/mind) are geared for survival, not for finding the truth.

"There is no physical evidence for the existence of a spiritual dimension."

- Certainly - dimensions are all physical, created by our mental/sensual interpretation of reality.

"I have enough trying to understand what exists in reality without concerning myself with the spiritual."

- Nothing exists in reality because existence itself is an illusion. You may of course research within that illusion as much as you like and find out what exists within it (not that I can see why anyone would want to).

"Spiritual is a word which I interpret as beyond reality."

- In a sense: "spiritual" is a name for what's beyond that which, being deluded by your mind and senses, you believe to be reality, beyond that which is called 'existence'.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 1:51:50 PM
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Character, attitude and motives are spiritual reality defined by judgments of absolutes, and not defined by the physical, but manifest metaphysically.

To many Germans in his day Hitler's motives were accepted by many, but in the light of Jesus teachings were dispicable terror.

David: Please define by physical science what your motives are in defending your position.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 2:29:39 PM
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Dear Josephus,

The only motive I have for defending my position is that it is the truth as I see it. Do I need any other motive?

What is your motive for stating your position?
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 2:44:33 PM
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