Well, I wish the very best of luck to those who believe that atheism can provide the answer to all the social ills of the world, at least in the immediate or short term - but I can't see how you are going to 'sell' this to either the masses or the radicals. I don't see how this will fit with sharia or orthodox 'this, that or the other'. Maybe in some generations' time perhaps - but in the meantime?

And, Pericles, I was not pushing a Christian, or any other barrow, and not pushing for a uniform world religion of any kind - just tolerance and an amelioration of radical views to a more humanitarian view across the board (and I did say it would be a big ask, nonetheless).

What social ills? None I suppose, if we ignore FGM and various other abuses of women, child marriage, child witches, and all manner of 'superstitions' resulting in inhumanity and abuse (from our Western viewpoint).

And, I have never excused any of the ills within the Christian church, or attempted to justify the unjustifiable. However, there seem to be other, equally unjustifiable wrongs occurring both within our society and elsewhere in the world, also requiring addressing - or not, if we choose not to give a hoot.

I have no illusions about the extent of inhumanity occurring across the globe (or the difficulties in effecting a solution), but religion is not to blame for all of this - and may be used as a convenient scapegoat in some instances - but I am however conjecturing that religious reform may provide a part of the solution. Kill me for thinking church leaders of all ilk may one day see promise in reform. (And, I hope soon.)

Most enlightened and noble, Saltpetre,

It's probably a fruitless task to fathom the myriad foibles of man. His overlarge neo-cortex in tandem with his mammalian brain exalts him and confuses him. There would appear to be streak of insanity running rampant through homo sapiens leading him on to who knows where.

The point is, Saltpetre, that neither religion nor atheism is an "answer".

>>Well, I wish the very best of luck to those who believe that atheism can provide the answer to all the social ills of the world, at least in the immediate or short term...<<

Atheism is not an "answer" to anything except the question "how do you define the state of non-belief in a deity". It is not a code of conduct, it is not a set of strictures, guidelines, laws or taboos. It contains nothing that affects, in any way at all, "the social ills of the world". It neither improves them, nor worsens them.

And I know of no-one who would claim otherwise.

>>I am however conjecturing that religious reform may provide a part of the solution. Kill me for thinking church leaders of all ilk may one day see promise in reform.<<

If, by "reform", you mean the advent of a universal religious tolerance, that allows people to ignore the fact that different people accept different manifestations of belief in a deity, and instead simply get on with their own lives, then I might be persuaded to agree with you.

However, while there exists even one religion that does not toe that line, intolerance will continue to create create disharmony, violence and death.

And, sadly, I believe that what you see as "reform" is the homogenization of religious belief into one single framework (please correct me if I am wrong). Which, in simple numeric terms, will require the majority of people to relinquish the religion they were born with, and take up another.

And that simply ain't going to happen, any time between now and the heat-death of the solar system.

"...all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins" (Bertrand Russell)

No, Pericles, I may be a cockeyed optimist, but I don't think I'm deluded:

>>I believe that what you see as "reform" is the homogenization of religious belief into one single framework (please correct me if I am wrong).<<

Can't happen - currently, and possibly never - given human fallibility and capacity to live in hope, to be excited by illusion, and to entertain an active imagination - plus of course the great diversity of and depth of commitment to existing belief systems.

I, as you appear, simply seek a watering down of the more extreme and deleterious elements of these belief systems. I even wish the US would stop their continual use of 'God bless America', as I see this as a potential (more probably real) affront to many of those who don't subscribe to the American, Christian God, and as an inherent declaration of superiority - no way to win friends or soothe potential enemies.

I just don't see saying 'there is no God - live with it' as having any real chance of changing anything; just as 'live and let live' really only smacks of 'business as usual' - and that wouldn't solve anything either.

Does anything need solving? Well, on this magnificent planet (of finite capacity, fragility and lifespan) I just hate seeing what a mess humankind is making of this once-only opportunity to create something of which an outside observer might rightly say 'this was truly worthy of their (humanity's) existence'.

Being a mere speck of dust in the cosmos, I can't change anything, but if enough people really care, all things may be possible.

Dear Saltpetre,

"I just hate seeing what a mess humankind is making of this once-only opportunity to create something of which an outside observer might rightly say 'this was truly worthy of their (humanity's) existence'"

After all your profound and balanced posts here, are you trying to tell us that the reason for existence in general and human-existence in particular, is to impress others?

I don't share any such interest to justify being here or to achieve any material goals - existence and creation are merely by-products of our spiritual journey. If humans were not making a mess, then how would they learn?

But they don't learn.

.... at least they've never learned to subdue their savagery toward their own kind.