Josephus wrote “Obviously you sit on the sidelines of life throwing stones of people from the past who claimed to be "Christian" but did not practise Christ's teaching.”

Dear Josephus,

There is a Christian saying one should hate the sin and love the sinner. I think that is good advice. Recognise that humans may not be able to free themselves from a certain pattern of behaviour but they may be trying to do the best they can. I see evil in Christianity. I can regard that evil as sin but will try to love the sinner, namely you. You are trapped in the belly of the beast that is your type of Christianity. “Trapped in the belly of the beast” is a reference to Jonah.

Christians of good will recognise the evil in Christianity that has encouraged bigotry and intolerance and are earnestly trying to eliminate it. They even recognise that some words attributed to Jesus encourage evil.

One of the questionable sayings attributed to Jesus is John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Anglican Bishop Spong has pondered on this and has written:

http://johnshelbyspong.com/sample-essays/the-terrible-texts/

RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY:

“No one comes to the Father but by me” (John 14:6)

This text has helped to create a world where adherents of one religion feel compelled to kill adherents of another. A veritable renaissance of religious terror now confronts us and is making against us the claims we have long made against religious traditions different from our own.

End of Spong comment

“I am the way.” That recognises no other point of view. It’s my way or the highway.

“no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” It doesn’t how good a life you live. It doesn’t matter how you treat your fellow beings or what good you do. Unless you accept my belief system you are damned.

In a recent Q&A TV broadcast Cardinal Pell said he believed that atheists could go to heaven. His humanity explicitly questioned the intolerant words of Jesus.

Dear George,

<<I don’t know of a serious Christian scientist who would claim the Bible overruled present day scientific theories and explanations.>>

I don't personally care whether and how this world was created (I consider it a material/scientific curiosity of no spiritual consequences), but I was half following this thread when I came across your above statement.

I also don't know of such a serious Christian scientist as you describe, but I once attended a lecture by a serious Jewish scientist and these were his words:

<<<
Nothing should prevent God from creating the world "old", including the geological layers, galaxies departing billions of light-years away, dinosaur fossils, etc. Now I don't personally believe that this is necessarily the case, but it presents a working model which proves that there is no contradiction between science and the bible, and once there is no logical contradiction, different models and different explanations are also possible which have not yet crossed our minds.
>>>

George,

It is of course my perogative, and indeed my duty. Einstein was uncomfortable with people using his "authority" to make points, or to avoid thinking about things for themselves. Many other physicists find religion and "god" to be ridiculous answers to meaningless questions.

The "inspirational" nature of religion to science is questionable at best. Far too many great scientists of all types are atheist for religion to regarded as anything more than an independent variable, a matter of taste and upbringing and mental habit.

Wasn't telling Einstein, was telling you. Dawkins is well aware, he is also aware that findings of science contradict many dearly held religious views clearly and definitively. If religion were a serious intellectual enterprise there would be no need for Dawkins to be concerned. Too much of our religious community refuse to acknowledge, accept or even be truthful to followers about scientific findings and to this extent biblical literalists, young earth creationists and even the pope (re condoms and AIDS) are deserving of his rebuke.

It is not up to Dawkins to coddle the intellectual weakness of these groups, nor any scientist.

Rusty

h, George, you clearly haven't met Dan S de Merengue.

>>I don’t know of a serious Christian scientist who would claim the Bible overruled present day scientific theories and explanations<<

I know that he is particularly tenacious in his views, so he won't mind being quoted here:

"In short I’d say while the creationist view is not in the middle of the theological mainstream, I think it’s slowly heading back that way. (I say ‘back’ as six day creation was the standard view of the church from the beginning of church history, through the centuries of great scientific advancement, i.e. well through Newton’s time, until approaching the time of Darwin.)"

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=13293#230258

So there you have it. We are heading (retreating?) to a situation where six day creationism once again becomes "mainstream", according to at least one serious, Christian, scientist.

My 2c.
Two functions of religion:
-The existential question: where did it all come from?
-And the moral issue: how do I live my life?

God does not solve the first one, in fact it replaces the universe with something even more inexplicable. At best this is can kicking.

God doesn't solve the second one either, as many religious wars and the misery that was normal human existence until science shows.

God is used as a cloak of virtue by those who's egos will not allow the humble attitude that science and ethics requires. All the prophets must be rolling in their graves. How many times has it been said to ignore the pointing finger once the moon is spotted...how many times "no idols, just truth".
Our progress as a species relies on us getting to grips with reality and religion is not helping!

the denial of God and the acceptance of pseudo science is the faith of those who have rejected the Only righteous Man and have taken on their own self righteousness as demonstrated by Ozandy's post. They want to somehow justify their own godless lives as virtuos.

Funny thing about their faith is they justify killing the unborn in masses and almost always are Christophobic. They have to remind themselves of their dogmas everytime they see a created thing. How true has the Scriptures proved of these times.