>>Jesus makes appeals to people of faith no matter their nationality Luke 4: 24 - 30.<<

But the take-home message from Luke 10:30-34 is still that Jesus was a racist pig.

Cheers,

Tony

Josephus wrote: “Jesus makes appeals to people of faith no matter their nationality.”

Josephus, I think you put your finger on a problem. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and other people of faith don’t need Jesus since they already have a faith, and Christian missionaries are trying to get them to abandon their faith for another. If they do become Christian, that probably puts them at odds with their family and their community. This creates conflict.

Vinoba Bhave, an Indian sage, advocated vertical conversion. Look deeper in your own faith for answers before you seek them in another. If you can’t find them in your own faith they may not exist.

Matthew 19: 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

The above indicates how Jesus doesn’t care if he breaks up families. Unfortunately there is quite a bit of hypocrisy when Christians talk about family values. Family destroying gods should be avoided.

People without religious faith don’t need Jesus since they probably don’t want any faith. Most likely they’ve thought it over and decided they don’t need a faith. Missionaries of any kind are really harassing people. It may be a mild harassment. I have felt harassed when some Bible basher has come on to me with their mumbojumbo,. I have told them I’m not interested, and they sometimes say with an idiotic smile, “I’ll pray for you!”

Josephus also wrote: “In his parting words he authorises his disciples to go into all nations Matthew 28: 16 - 20.” In practice that sometimes has had horrible results and is a major harassment. Charlemagne gave the pagan Gauls the choice of Christianity or beheading. Other Christian monsters have followed suit.

Far, far better and wiser than the words of Jesus are the words of Vinoba Bhave and those of the late, great Jimmy Durante, “Why doesn’t everybody leave everybody else the hell alone?”

david f,
The whole concept of people with a message they feel will better peoples lives you believe,“Why doesn’t everybody leave everybody else the hell alone?” Tell this to advertisers see if they believe you.

Tony Lavis,

>>But the take-home message from Luke 10:30-34 is still that Jesus was a racist pig.<<

Irrespective of anything covered in the article or posted on this thread, the above is uncalled-for and totally unjustified, AND I CALL UPON YOU TO MAKE A RETRACTION.

Furthermore, in my copy of the ST JAMES bible, Luke 10:30-34 conveys the parable of the Good Samaritan (and continues in 35-37 if you wanted the full message). If this is what you intended to quote, I fail to see where you find any racism or offense. A poor show on your part, altogether.

Anyhow, all this swordplay of bible quotes isn't very impressive, in my view, since it is the overall message and impression which is important, rather than snippets. Snippet seeking can be very misleading.

david f, your interpretation of Matthew 19: 29 is also misleading and narrow, in my opinion, for from this I take the message of 'having the courage of your convictions' and thereby 'attaining a fulfilled life'. Although I do concede the passage lays it on a bit heavy, insofar as suggesting one should abandon family, home and hearth, if necessary, in order to maintain one's faithful service. But, my interpretation would place this as a possibility only in the event of no other course being available (as eg where one is subject to severe disparagement and punishment in that environment, because of one's beliefs - as say in a household of thieves and cutthroats).

Live and let live - or as david f quotes “Why doesn’t everybody leave everybody else the hell alone?” - but tempered with a due regard for the beneficial works various faiths perform in this world, such as the likes of Mother Theresa and the Sisters of Mercy, Buddhist medical monks, housing for the homeless, caring for unwed mothers and women escaping abuse, nursing homes, orphan's homes, youth outreach and mentoring; most of which is provided with little if any 'proselytizing'.

Example is the best inspiration for a good, meaningful and constructive life, and, ultimately, preparation for death. Only my opinion of course.

Josephus:

Unfortunately the message of Christianity has made people’s lives worse in many ways. It has justified and supported slavery, imperialism, censorship, massacres, anti-Semitism, colonialism and other manifestations of human oppression.

From the time that Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire it has used political power to oppress.
In the 380s, Theodosius I reiterated Constantine's ban on Pagan sacrifice, prohibited haruspicy on pain of death, pioneered the criminalization of Magistrates who did not enforce anti-Pagan laws, broke up some pagan associations and destroyed Pagan temples.

He issued a comprehensive law that prohibited any Pagan ritual even within the privacy of one's home, and was particularly oppressive of Manicheans. Paganism was now proscribed, a "religio illicita". He is likely to have suppressed the Ancient Olympic Games, whose last record of celebration is from 393.

Christianity has often been an enemy of learning and science. Some think the Dark Ages began when Christian monks murdered the brilliant Hypatia, a pagan astronomer, philosopher and mathematician who refused to adopt Christianity.

Servetus, a brilliant man, who discovered pulmonary circulation was burned at the stake in 1553 in Protestant Geneva for doubting the Trinity. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake in Catholic Rome in 1600 for his insight that the sun was one of many stars.

Gaileo died under house arrest for maintaining that the earth goes around the sun instead of being the centre of the universe.

Christianity is still fighting science by promoting Creationism and Intelligent Design.

The people and churches of most Christian nations have supported their armies going forth and slaughtering the peoples of Christian and non-Christian nations.

The Nazi Holocaust would probably not have happened had not the Christian Germans been conditioned by centuries of Christian hatred to accept Nazi policies toward the Jews.

You made a good comparison, Josephus. Advertising and Christian missionaries have been very effective at selling useless and harmful products.

Saltpetre,

In my opinion the deleterious effects of Christianity far outweigh its beneficial effects. The services you mentioned often come with a lot of proselytising

No shortage of supposition (or maybe suppositories) here. I love it.
I think some of us may have lost sight of the fact that the Holy Bible is all about the Jews, and only the Jews, at the very least up the point of the crucifixion.
IF there was an historical Jesus, then I would suggest an objective reading would indicate he was a Jewish reformer. His goal appeared to be to reform the Jewish religion rather than start a new religion in his own name -at least in the beginning. It's entirely possible, as suggested in JC Superstar, that his own fame went to his head and the message changed. I think a large number of modern Christians could accept this, based on the idea that until the resurrection Jesus was entirely human, as evidenced by his dying words, “Father, why have you forsaken me?”
As a reformer, naturally he would want to tear the children away from the faith of their fathers. That's what reformers do.
I would contend that Jesus did not start the Christian religion. That was the work of Peter, Paul and the others. Keep in mind that nobody's a leader, until someone chooses to follow him.
It should also be clear that those followers had their own axe to grind, and their own message to peddle. Apart from the fact that it was followers who wrote the gospels in the first place, clearly the message of the churches differs radically from the message of the Bible, in many respects.
Witness the Pope in Rome, surrounded by material wealth that could only be the envy of Kings and Potentates, while worshipping a mendicant rabbi, who scorned materialism.