>>Romans 1: 24 - 27 gives the Christian position on perversion of human sexuality.<<

Fail. It gives the Biblical position on perversion of human sexuality. I don't know any Christian who believes the whole Bible. Most of them haven't even read the whole thing: I haven't. Far too much 'and Azor begat Brian' and not enough explosions or car chases.

As well as ignoring all the bits they can't be bothered to read all Christians ignore the bits they have read but disagree with. There's stuff in there endorsing slavery for God's sake. And people used to believe it: before decent Christian men succeeded in abolishing the British other slave trade not-so-decent Christian men quoted from the Bible to justify their immorality. These days everyone just skips over that bit.

You can follow the teachings of Christ while ignoring Saul's views on homosexuality. It won't make you a bad Christian any more than those Christians who ignore other bits of the Bible.

Cheers,

Tony

So obviously Tony Lavis anything goes in your version of Christian and Hebrew scripture. If you claim to be either then you believe the teachings of the Hebrew or Christian scripture or otherwise you cannot claim to be taking a position for either. You cannot be making the claim for either that God is cool about homosexual acts.

Obviously you are promoting a new religion that does not reflect either Moses or Christ, but some homosexual lobby akin to the god Juno. If you wish to belittle the teachings of either then do not purport to be representing the teachings of either.

I still find myself in some confusion, Alan… I've lost track of what is still asserted, in contention or retracted.

(BTW 'dear' certainly, but 'old' - pouty bottom lip)

Would it help if we restrict ourselves to edicts quoted as actual sayings of Jesus - red letter Christians?

For the Hebrew tradition the 10 Commandments seem fairly straightforward but they don't really help with the topic from Josephus' point of view.

Maybe if he could point us to all the references showing exactly how, where and when 'God instituted marriage'... That might give us an idea of what is *not* cool?

Kipp (6.47pm, 11/4),

Not true at all.

In the 1973 Victorian state election, I supported the legalisation of homosexuality. Of course, the usual tactic of the pro-gay marriage lobby is to abuse those who oppose them, with a bit of mind-reading and pop psychology thrown in, as you show so clearly here. That is much simpler than dealing with the argument.

Chris Curtis

Dear Josephus,

Thank you for the clarification and quote from Acts 15: I now understand that Christians [try to] go by Noachide law.

I never claimed such nonsense that "God is cool with homosexuality", nor that "God hates homosexuality". In fact any statement of the form "God is X" is nonsensical and leads to contradictions. The correct question should be: "Does acting this way gets me closer to or further away from God?" and the answer is that for most people, making life decisions based on one's sexuality (of whatever inclination) is likely to lead them astray.

Sexual restraint is an important spiritual principle, which should be cultivated according to one's level of ability. While sexuality should not be denied, heterosexuals and homosexuals alike should not be proud of their desires, but rather seek to gradually overcome them.

Where most people are at, marrying thus committing sexually to just one person, is a step forward from where they are, regardless whether their partner is of the same or the opposite gender. The ultimate ideal is total abstinence and transmuting one's sexual energy, directing it to God. Once there, gender is no longer relevant anyway, but that's extremely hard and only a few are near that stage, so meanwhile you should be happy for any baby-steps that people make in the right direction.

As I'm not a Christian, I personally have no reason to recognise the bible (or the Koran for that matter) as God-given. While I appreciate the religious benefits of being a Christian and the value of many biblical principles and wish well to those who practice them, I question your assertion that if one doesn't accept either the Hebrew or Christian scriptures then one has no right to discuss God.

Religion, or the quest to reach God, was there long before the bible was written, long before the word "religion" was uttered, in fact long before humans were around. While I appreciate and value the Christian tradition, I don't agree that it (or the Abrahamic faith in general) has an exclusive right over discussing God or over religion.

What constitutes the blessing of marriage by our Creator?
Genesis 1: 27 – 28. “ So God created man in his own image, ...; male and female created he them. 28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

The blessing of God is the sanctioning of the male and female relationship and their parenting of children; and the provision to feed and nurture a family. It is impossible for two persons of the same gender to procreate from their relationship.

Genesis:2: 21- 25: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam .. and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh ..; the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man”. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Man and woman form a single unit of human flesh [male + female = one], which is not so with only one gender; same gender do not constitute husband and wife. This is what constitutes marriage: it is the uniting of two genders to reunite the human unit forming “one flesh”. Neither gender of itself reunites the two to become one as constitutes the whole unit of a humanity.

This concept of a single unit constituting marriage is consistent in both Orthodox Judaism and orthodox Christianity [and Islam].

To make the spurious claim “God is cool with same sex marriage” there is a text in Revelation 3: 15 - 16 “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit thee out of my mouth”.