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The Forum > Article Comments > Excess is followed by collapse - learning from history > Comments

Excess is followed by collapse - learning from history : Comments

By Valerie Yule, published 30/3/2012

The history of empires and nations has been that excess is followed by collapse. How can we avoid the same fate?

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Very lame but typical excuse Jon J, especially when a lead author is quoted in the article.

Read the full article and comment accordingly:

http://deepeco.ucsd.edu/~george/publications/09_critical_transitions.pdf

Give it 20 seconds or so to download, if you can wait that long.

.

Jon J, your understanding of a cooling trend is shown thus:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/SkepticsvRealistsv3.gif

Yes?

____

Fake sceptics gladly link or quote anti-global warming blog-sites, media-shock jocks and political ideologues, but have the audacity to impugn a scientific paper without having made the effort to understand it – preferring to see and hear only what they want to see and hear.
Posted by bonmot, Sunday, 1 April 2012 8:59:42 AM
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bonmot,
I happen to agree with what you're saying about alternative energies. The problem is we don't have any as yet. Perhaps your research might one day come up with something but can we wait that long ?
Why do we need research for cleaner energy when even the village idiot will tell you that over population is the cause. Are you by any chance trying to find a technological way to curb population growth ?
Just look at the pictures of the shrinking rain forests or the Aral Sea. If that isn't enough to realise that population growth is the cause of it then no amount of research will find a solution.
I looked up wind power & found that the manufacturing of cleaner energy is more polluting than traditional power stations. Same goes for solar panels.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 1 April 2012 9:24:25 AM
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Ludwig, we already have a very effective tool for planning ahead and changing people's behaviour -- it's called the free market. If there are genuine negativities from fossil fuel use, then prices will go up and people will use less. If the 'negativities' are only warmist fantasies, then attempts to impose costs to pay for them will fail and the whole enterprise will ultimately be discredited.

Given that carbon exchanges in the US have closed, and the European carbon exchange price has dropped to an all-time low, which of those do you think is the more likely scenario?

And see also: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/20/the-simple-solution-to-climate-change-hint-it-isnt-world-government/
Posted by Jon J, Sunday, 1 April 2012 12:59:36 PM
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"Jon J, your understanding of a cooling trend is shown thus:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/SkepticsvRealistsv3.gif

Yes?"

Well, yes, if you actually start with the first dot and draw a straight line through to the last dot. That's called 'using all the available data' -- something that alarmists are not conspicuously good at.

But if you don't like that approach, then draw a line through the first dot to the second-last dot, and I think you'll observe that we actually have a cooling trend. Bummer, eh?
Posted by Jon J, Sunday, 1 April 2012 1:02:48 PM
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Must be the sea suckin out the hot air, and raising the ocean temp and melting the ice shelf.
Adverse weather will continue and gradually get worse, as the years progress.
The world has had to much of a good thing, and nature has been compromised.
Posted by 579, Sunday, 1 April 2012 1:23:00 PM
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Hahahaha!

>> draw a line through the first dot to the second-last dot, and I think you'll observe that we actually have a cooling trend. <<

So that's how you lot do time series statistical analysis?

Bummer, that them there post-doctoral work was all *crap* too : (

Need more time for the Carpenter et al paper?
Posted by bonmot, Sunday, 1 April 2012 1:35:35 PM
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