Dear Mac,

Zionism was never a monolithic movement. Certain branches of Zionism, notably that of its formal founder, Herzl, stressed the importance of including the native Arabs in their plans. Even Zabotinsky, the founder of revisionist-Zionism (of which the Likud and Netanyahu are followers) initially stressed the importance of including the Arabs. However, he changed his ideas about it following the Hebron pogrom in 1929. Likewise, there are some Zionists who consider Zionism complete and some that do not.

Re mud-houses, I was not suggesting a pro-progress argument (if you knew me, several colleagues here consider me a Ludite...), but simply that on the one hand those mud-houses could not stand this long anyway and on the other, nobody in their right-mind would be willing to destroy so much that they've built. We need to be real about it.

The Zionists indeed decided to start again on someone else's land - by buying that land, in cash and much cash: what's wrong with that?
(but obviously this does not justify those parts of the land that were not purchased)

Re well-oiled-war-machine, how else could they do given the bitter attacks on their lives and outright declarations by Arab countries of their intention to throw them to the sea?

Palestinians are not defenceless: they have Iran and Hezbollah behind them with 10,000's of deadly missiles, then Syria and Iran with much more, including chemical weapons, and soon nuclear too.

Re USA, indeed unfortunate, sigh, France used to be a better ally of Israel. But what to do if nobody else comes to help?

Re settlements-and-Zionism, I couldn't agree more, but most ordinary Israelis are victims of that, not the perpetrators.

In summary, it's not black and white. Both "sides" suffer more from extremists within than from the "others".

Dear Yuyutsu,

You claiming that the KGB created the idea of a Palestinian is like claiming Mossad created Hamas.

Oh, wait....

I support Israel all of the way. I have nothing but the greatest respect for the secular Jews who have done more to advance science than any other race, but what I think of the Orthodox Jews, I had better keep to myself, lest I get banned from OLO for life.

I find it amusing that the Arabs, at one time the most aggressive, and genocidal race on planet Earth, are now portraying themselves as victims. When it comes to ethnic cleansing, the Arabs are past masters at it. Every sane person who studies history knows exactly what the problem that the Arabs have with Israel. Israel was an infidel state conquered by Islam which has reclaimed its independence, and that is total anathema to the Muslims, and the Arab Muslims especially.

All this crap about poor “Palestinaians” is just a ruse to fool the “progressive” elements in western countries who think that always opposing the opinions of your own governments, or the interests of your own people, indelibly marks you as someone with superior intelligence and moral virtues.

The doublethink involved by western “progressives” who ignoring the fact that the Arabs have almost completely ethnically cleansed their own territories, while complaining that those dreadful Jews are returning the compliment to the Arabs, is rather breathtaking.

To all of you western pseudo-intellectuals who think that Israel is in the wrong, what do you think will happen if the Arabs finally destroy Israel? Do you think that the Arabs are going to show their moral superiority over the Jews and remave any racist laws in the new state of Palestine, then sit down with the Jews singing Kumbaya? Because if you do, I would like to sell you a harbour bridge in Sydney, cheap.

Get on YouTube and have look at all of those lovely and intelligent looking Israeli Army teenage girls toting Armalites. They know exactly what is in store for them if the Arabs ever over run Israel, and most of them would rather die on their feet before they allow the Arabs to get them on their backs

"most of them would rather die on their feet before they allow the Arabs to get them on their backs"

That seems to be the province of the Israeli army officers.

David

Merry Christmas Leggo.

I've never been anything other than open minded, I vote libera,l am a capitalist and believe in a god but am totally irreligeous.

I reject Israel's totalitarian attitudes, laws and expansionist aggression. Jewishness, Christianity or Islamism has little to do with the formation of my opinion... I despise them all equally.

I think the Sydney Harbour Bridge may have already found it's buyer. Enjoy.

'most of them would rather die on their feet before they allow the Arabs to get them on their backs"

That seems to be the province of the Israeli army officers.'

David

And the odd Israeli President.