@ Yuyutsu.

I agree that the family is the fundamental unit of society, and thus is pre-political. I agree it is not the state that mediates or creates our freedom it is constitutive of our very humanity. And states must not play God. An unjust law is no law.

The justice of feticide and infanticide, is in your account, premised on no higher will but that of the parents - a kind of divine will - the power over life and death. Parents who did not self-create, but rather inherited a universe, world, humanity and the freedom that comes with it. Not being the source of these things but acting as if they were - is to play God.

You chafe against State absolutism quite rightly but you replace it with the absolute will of the individual. These are two sides of the same debased coin of voluntarism (the philosophy that good has no real existence or nature but is created merely in the act of willing some thing) - that arbitrary desire is the sole criterion of the good.

Voluntarism as an idea in the West began in the error of theological voluntarism (William of Ockham in the C14th). The declension beginning from the sovereignty of God's will (God can will evil), to the King's (divine right of Kings), to the nation-state's (positive law), now to the sovereignty of individuals (abortion, infanticide, gay 'marriage', sexual license) has had horrific effects.

A small error at the beginning of a chain of reasoning results in very big errors in its conclusion. Yuyutsu, your hideous belief in infanticide is one of those.

P.s. you need to fly immediately to Aristotle-Aquinas and natural law http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/07/does-morality-depend-on-god.html and hope for the best.

God be with you.

Lindy,

The indigenous people of Australia and Palestine have much in common.

Their lands have been invaded and stolen. We in Australia initially attempted to repress the Aboriginal cultures.

In Australia we've ceased those things and apologised. We've also started to return rights to vast tracts of traditional lands. We also formerly recognise and highlight Indigenous culture. Modern Australian and he traditional culture in Australia are highly recognisable. Many Australians like to think they can share the tradition of both Australian cultures. Don't you?

Israel culture isn't recognisable at all and it's various parts are not able to be shared by all.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would try to compare conditions in Australia for indigenous people as being on a par with conditions in Israel for it's indigenous people.

In Palestine the discrimination, land-theft and repression is ongoning.

Lindy, my consciense is stirred whenever I see injustice and underhanded or overt support for it or feeble attempts at justification of it.

Should I not act on, or extinguish, my consciense?
Wasn't that the point of Mishka's article?
Or is it that both you and Mishka would have us all extinguish our conscienses when it comes to blatant Israeli wrongdoing?

Bempec,

do you think it wrong to have an Apartheid state in South Africa, a Nazi state in Germany, Communist states in much of Eastern Europe and North Korea, Right-wing dictatorships in Chile or Argentina, Mullah-led dictatorships in Iran, left-wing dictatorships in Libya, Yemmen, Syria, Iraq and Egypt. Madness in many African states.

I did and in cases still do.

Israel represses it's own and other people, has invaded it's neighbours and has ongoing illegal occupations.

Your attempt at justicifation by choosing the lesser of two evils doesn't at all change the fundamental vengeful nature of Israel which leads it to be repressive and outlaw.

My consciense stirs whenever there are claims that Israel is like us westerners ... we westerners who exercise consciense.

Israel simply applies it's consciense to only Jewish people and does not apply it to all equally ... like we westerners.

Imajulianutter, I could perhaps take your comments a bit more seriously if you just as vehement towards other “immoral” countries as you are towards Israel. Instead, you seem to solely focus on a campaign of vilifying and de-legitimizing both Israel and the Jewish people, and in the process continue to attack Mishka’s credibility. You make over-generalizations about Israel without any factual back up. In short, you are a negative, one-dimensional thinker. For you everything is black and white, and monolithic, and your world is divided into goodies and baddies. You find nothing good in those that you attack. In short, your ideas contribute nothing to world peace.

Dear Martin,

We have no disagreement. I think I have made it clear already that individual will does not morality make. Morality is from God (though there is still the question of how we get to know God's will, which we may or may not agree on, but is beyond the scope of this article) and one who kills a baby (born or unborn) for selfish reasons will be judged accordingly in heaven (so also one who kills an animal for selfish reasons).

May God also be with you.

One would think that if Catholics were so against abortion, they
would have every reason to encourage better family planning,
tubal litigation, better sex education in schools and suchlike.

Instead, all we've seen is the Vatican fighting 3rd world family
planning all the way, where they can, however they can.

One wonders where their concience is, given the hunger, suffering
and misery that they are responsible for, due to their flawed
dogma.