one under god,

Once again, I can really only guess here, because your posts are all Greek to me... something about non-functional timepieces being an abomination? What's so terrible about timekeeping devices which don't work properly, one under god?

AJ Phillips, Pericles and anyone else:

1 You both seem to be as hooked on literalism as the religious fundamentalists you often berate. For you, a word must mean only what a dictionary or everyday conventions say it means, and you rail against any attempt to play with words in pursuit of bringing fresh insight. The “word-play” you deride is how our language and culture has been enriched for untold centuries. Without it there would be no poetry, for example. In the case of experience of the Divine/God/One/whatever, whom we can never satisfactorily describe, everyday language is useless and so it must be stretched, twisted, played with if we are to give even an inkling of the experience.

2 You cling to the belief that the child’s idea of God is the same God towards whom the faith of all Christian adults reaches. That is simply wrong. Spirituality must mature if it is to be healthy for an adult: after childhood it is unhealthy to have “an idealized father-figure” as your notion of God. It seems that, because you never really explored spiritually beyond that childish stage and then rejected the notion of God that you had encountered, you now always think of all belief in God as childish. Know that there are many Christians throughout the world who have passed beyond the Oedipal phase, no longer projecting a parent-image into the sky, no longer wanting to be absolved of “responsibility for their own decisions”. And yet they are still finding real creativity, love and joy in God, inspiring them to contribute that to the world.

3 You can be a great and good human being while still calling yourself an atheist or agnostic, and many people are doing just that. They have my respect and admiration. I aim not to “convert” anyone to Christianity or any religion but to convey some insights that I cannot conceal. My language obviously fails to earn your respect, but I persevere because some experiences or views of reality just demand expression, whatever the reception might be. God insists.

acolyte:..as person assisting a priest
or as the ass-istant or follower

regardless the illiterate accolite rizzlala..wrote

quote''What's so terrible about timekeeping devices
which don't work properly,..one under god?''

clearly not reading in full..my posts
has confused you..never the less i will explain

time is relitive...even the motions of the heavens
dont match the neded materialistic precision..

the matrerial measure of time is flawed
[and i see nuthin wrong with that..this material realm is far from perfect..[said to be the realm of satan]..so its best we learn to not expect any perfections here..[in this time and space]

its difficult to guess why you made your request
no doudt it would link back to the 6 days of creation..or some other athiest ocolite destractions..[so let try to head these off at the pass..cut them off at the root so to speak]

in the beginning was a big bang...[upon god saying the words let there be light]...so the first few billions of years..where the deep became the universe...no other frame of referance could reasonably be applied..bar the measure of a day

so we have the logic of the darkness preceeding the first..'day'
then the 2 de evening..of the big bang expanding..then the next 'day'..where we see the fermameant sepperating from the waters..the air's..from the aethers etc

till finally we get all the other stars in the heavens
as the big bang slowly does its measured progression..[for conveniance divided into 'days']

so here is the thing...all this expanding..hasnt stoped
in fact is said to be accelerating...so much so..that even a ruler [measure]..is expanding as much as that it measures..[were dinosaurs really that big or has the world got bigger]..who really knows

yet google up expanding earth
and see what you think

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12o4lts76/EXP=1321588126;_ylt=AibOJF1GhqekVcnrK4.30.3xh7l_/**http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv=ZFOiQld0TPw%26feature=youtube_gdata

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AiWgMi7Fo9JliLZwdifL9G3xh7l_/SIG=120g8qnuo/EXP=1321069726/**http%3A//pulse.yahoo.com/y/settings/share_more

maybe picture's help you become more amased

AJ Phillips,

Just as science is constantly being refined, then why not theology?

Apples did not stop falling from trees when Newton's mechanics were superceded by Einstein's relativity. Similarly, the reality of who and what we are and what life is all about did not change with our evolving understanding and theology.

In the western, Judeo-Christian tradition, the concept of God evolved from man-made gods of stone, wood and metals, through the Jewish god which was initially thought of as dwelling in the sky and only gradually began to lose its shape and form: in fact, until the 12th century, the Jewish god was commonly believed to have a body, sized at 1/3 of the universe (that idea was rejected by Maimonides who fought it bitterly).

Gradually, the idea of God shedded its material, its shape, its form, its size and its location, as well as its human-like emotions and yes... the father-figure image too. The following step is but natural - to release God's image from the bonds of existence. This is most welcome - finally the west is catching up with what has been known in the east for thousands of years.

We've had this conversation before, crabsy.

>>You both seem to be as hooked on literalism as the religious fundamentalists you often berate. For you, a word must mean only what a dictionary or everyday conventions say it means, and you rail against any attempt to play with words in pursuit of bringing fresh insight. The “word-play” you deride is how our language and culture has been enriched for untold centuries. Without it there would be no poetry, for example<<

Your "playing with words" is positively procrustean.

You decide that a word means what you want it to mean, then shift everything around until it fits your purpose. A bit like someone forcing a watermelon through a letterbox with a mallet. At the end you say "look, it fits", carefully ignoring the mess all over the floor.

Accept it. You're just not good enough a technician to manipulate our language in such a fashion, and still convey a convincing image. Probably because the words you choose to massacre are too strong in themselves to be manipulated to provide "fresh insights".

>>You cling to the belief that the child’s idea of God is the same God towards whom the faith of all Christian adults reaches.<<

I don't "cling to a belief" at all, crabsy. Furthermore, I doubt very much indeed whether the God you are trying to describe is "the same God towards whom the faith of all Christian adults reaches".

The vast majority of my Christian friends still cling to the father-image. They have even standardized on a prayer which they invariably intone at their gatherings, which starts, "Our Father".

I know, I know, theirs are terribly immature and simplistic beliefs, when compared to your incredibly deep and complex spirituality. But my point stands: it is a far easier sale, when the vendor is able to describe the product with clarity.

I certainly see how the father-figure product makes sales. It resonates at a deep personal and emotional level. But frankly, I can't see too many people - Yuyutsu and Sells being likely exceptions - buying your brand of introverted mysticism.

Yuyutsu,

I was interested in your comment regarding Bishop Berkeley when you said "Why can't I just think for myself?"...you remarked once to me that you only entertained God's thoughts, and if you suspected a thought in you mind was other than God's then you at once rejected it...or something to that effect.

Or did I misinterpret your meaning?