Riots often develop in poor societies, and currently child poverty in the UK is about 30% of children, which is a direct result of about 50% of children being born outside of marriage.

Such children normally grow up in poverty, and would find it difficult to escape poverty, as they would have minimal education and minimal skills to offer employers.

Poor societies in the UK are not necessarily the result of government decisions, war, globalisation etc, but the result of societies accepting feminist policies that marriage is oppressive, and children should be raised by the mother without the father.

If someone wants to see the end results of feminism, take a walk through the streets of Peckham, Ladbroke Grove, Ealing, Catford, Bethnal Green, Chalk Farm, East Dulwich, Lewisham, Clapham, Croydon etc.

The dangers of premature speculation are evident from the report of the Police Integrity commission which shows that the bullet that was fired and hit the police officer's radio came from another Police firearm. Initial media reports were strongly suggesting the man the Police shot dead was the original culprit. Don't expect any serious investigation leading to the shooter being held culpable. There have been an average of two deaths in police custody per month fgor the last 11 years, yet not a single police officer has been convicted as a result. Then there all the outside police custody which take an inordinate amount of time to be resolved. Blair Peach is a classic but by no means isolated example.
Tariq Ali is right to point to the geographical similarities. They are also the areas where minority groups are subject to constant Police harassment. There is an enlightening discussion on Democracy Now of 10 August that people should listen to. It reflects the anger and the rage of the perpetually disadvantaged. Focusing on the mindless yobs who capitalise on these situations is only another way of avoiding addressing the real issues.

""where unhappiness is the permanent condition,
riots are perhaps not that surprising.""

nor is the easy response
if you do the crime..you do the time
EXCEPT IF YOUR IN THE IN CROWD of children
dealing in bank theft bonds and bailouts

ITS THE SAME KIDS
doing the same childish things

BUT one lot of em
got clever lawyers
the others got the dole
live in a hole

yes pri-minester camera/on
beat up the poor..stealing socks jocks and reebocks

but the thieves stealing values
should be in the stocks
not selling stock

getting..govt bailout..!
when they fail[fall]..cause of greed

or
get the dole

where better for govt money?

the dole is HEAPS cheaper..!

""The commentary on the death
of Mark Duggan remains sporadic.""

yes he didnt shoot
he got shot

and the shooters [policing petty policy]
not wholsale colluded white collar crime
say he shot first[they hate kids]..but not all kids

ie the RICH kids...with the same attitudes
get off scott free
and buy a new porche..with the next bonus/bailout

and the poor get pilloried..in the 6 page spread
while..the rich prepare for their next bailout

great mate


""This,he argues,
is 'anger at the breakdown
of an implicit social contract'.""

blimey..send them to the colonies
how dare they complain

oh and lets bailout our mates
pip pip and all that

ol school tie stuff
nuff said

let the capitalists sort it out this time
or send the 16,000 cops to wall and fleet street
police real crime..

if only they preserve the crime scene
in time

well done cobber
who will the bobbies clobber?

"The dangers of premature speculation are evident from the report of the Police Integrity commission which shows that the bullet that was fired and hit the police officer's radio came from another Police firearm."

Another danger of premature speculation is asserting the bullet was fired by the police .. at the moment it is only established the round was the SAME CALIBER as police issue.

It is not know which gun fired it or whether the suspect had a similar firearm .. (maybe there was a 3rd shooter! Did anyone check the grassy knoll?)

sheesh!

Australia needs to learn from these events. If you bring in large numbers of people from the third world, you will become third world. It's too late now for the Brits and the French and the rest of Europe which have large numbers of minority tribes- people living in ghettoes of poverty and crime.To appease all ethnicities Europe's national identities had been eroded and will never be regained.
These minorities have huge families, all collecting generous welfare payments generation after generation, and with absolutely no chance of ever intergrating with their hosts.Most major cities in Europe will have Muslim majority populations within the next 25 years. Look at our cities now - the events in Britain need to warn us loud and clear, that we cannot let the Greens who want to let anyone who can get here stay permanently,ever influence our immigration policies.

That's way too simplistic kman. Read this article about a muslim father who lost his son who was run-over by a looter while he was trying to defend his neighbourhood.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-11/father-too-late-to-save-dying-son-in-uk-riots/2834124

I reckon there'd be plenty of white anglo males who would react with far less dignity and humanity than this father.

There appears to be little point in publishing thoughtful, carefully expressed articles on this topic. No matter how reasoned, no matter how patiently and empathetically phrased, the only reaction to them that we can expect with confidence, is the mindless reflection of individual prejudice - even occasionally, bigotry.

>>Poor societies in the UK are... the result of societies accepting feminist policies that marriage is oppressive<<

>>There have been an average of two deaths in police custody per month fgor the last 11 years, yet not a single police officer has been convicted as a result. Then there all the outside police custody which take an inordinate amount of time to be resolved... minority groups are subject to constant Police harassment.<<

>>RICH kids...with the same attitudes get off scott free and buy a new porche..with the next bonus/bailout and the poor get pilloried<<

>> If you bring in large numbers of people from the third world, you will become third world. It's too late now for the Brits and the French and the rest of Europe which have large numbers of minority tribes- people living in ghettoes of poverty and crime.To appease all ethnicities Europe's national identities had been eroded and will never be regained.<<

And that's just on page 1.

Amicus, you just can't help yourself can you. The IPCC report established that the bullet found in the police radio was identical to that issued to the police, and only to the Police. The IPCC also established that the police lied about Mark Duggan shooting at them. He was not even armed. The irresistible inference is that the police fired one of their own bullets into the police radio to provide a cover story to excuse their execution of Mr Duggan.
But then, inferences drawn from facts was never your strong point anyway. Someone who uses the 'grassy knoll' as a term of derision merely demonstrates their complete and utter ignorance of the facts (found for example in the 12 volume ARRB report) and a shameless desire to protect the real culprits at whatever cost.

Pericles, you quote part of my first comment on deaths in and out of police custody. What part of that is "individual prejudice or bigotry"? I suggest it is a fact that needs to be taken into account to understand why disadvantaged groups riot. There are plenty of historical precedents as even a passing acquaintance with, for example, the civil rights movement in the US would attest.

The UK has had 30 - 40 riots of differing scales since 1700. The Riot Act was enacted in 1714. Us Poms know how to riot.

There is no excuse for rioting and causing death and damage, but the causes of these riots are, according to some media, and often in letters pages, immigration and mutlicutluralism. What rot. What bigoted rubbish.

The causes of riots almost always stem from poverty, unemployment, and general disenfranchisement and powerlessness. This is the breeding ground for rabble-rousing and thuggery.

GrahamY, Whoa!- that ought to convince me - Just kidding...You quote one isolated case as opposed to thousands of acts of violence by these migrants in every city in Europe every single day. In France alone there are 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people - 8 percent of the population - live. These are areas where police, emergency or any government vehicles will not enter because they will be fire bombed. People get mugged, even murdered, in the ZUS. On an average night in France 300 vehicles will be torched but the media prefer not to write about it. In France Muslims are 6% of the population. They also make up 70% of the prison population.
And this GrahamY, is just France. Give me a break from your rainbow "all cultures re equal world' and understand this is how it is in the real world and every year it will get worse.

Jens Orback, Democracy Minister (!) in the Swedish government, said during a radio debate: "We must be open and tolerant towards Islam and Muslims because when we become a minority, they will be so towards us. "If that doesn't send a chill up the spine of any rational thinking freedom loving westerner, then I don’t know what will.

"There appears to be little point in publishing thoughtful, carefully expressed articles on this topic. No matter how reasoned, no matter how patiently and empathetically phrased, the only reaction to them that we can expect with confidence, is the mindless reflection of individual prejudice - even occasionally, bigotry."... Pericles.

That's what you have to love about the left.Theirs is the only opinion
that's right because "It's patiently and empathetically phrased" and so the subject should never be discussed.

Aside from the point that what I wrote were facts as can be ascertained through Google,I wonder at just how far you can bury your head in the sand and actually believe that these things are not happening in the real world.
Oh and check out the piece from the lefty NY Times "The Dark side of Paradise"...Then again maybe you had better not because it will scare the hell out of you multicultural dreamers.

jeez james, how about a Bex and a good lie down, you're getting overexcited before all the facts are in.

Have you seen the IPCC report? I believe it is an initial report, and only the ballistics part has been released .. usually, only on TV do CSI teams work this fast .. think about it, extensive ballistics tests take more than a day or two to complete.

Now here's a thing, years ago, Constable Rodney Silk was shot in Melbourne, WITH A POLICE HANDGUN .. awkward isn't it .. you see the murderer had a STOLEN GUN!

So regardless of the ammo only being "police issue", other people can get hold of it, or a gun or whatever .. and then again you may be correct, but who would know at the moment?

Can we wait till the inquest, or must we all jump to our favored conclusions like a bunch of self obsessed journalists?

Conspiracy theories abound at the moment, and I do note the hatred of many for law and order and community, but that doesn't mean it is OK to riot and destroy your neighborhood.

There is all manner of speculation on the web about the shooting right now, by excited types .. just like you, it doesn't make it true ..ok? It also doesn't justify the wanton destruction.

The violence in London is in my opinion, partly due to years of soft policing and run down of law and order and respect under successive Labour governments in the UK, just like it is here in Victoria, we emasculated the once respected police and they, like the London police, become spectators.

Facts, eh, kman?

>>Aside from the point that what I wrote were facts as can be ascertained through Google<<

Let's have a look.

>>These minorities have huge families, all collecting generous welfare payments generation after generation<<

>>Most major cities in Europe will have Muslim majority populations within the next 25 years.<<

And your latest bit of whimsy:

>>In France alone there are 751 no-go areas... where police, emergency or any government vehicles will not enter because they will be fire bombed.<<

>>On an average night in France 300 vehicles will be torched<<

And all this is "ascertained through Google"?

I'm reasonably certain that you have simply repeated someone else's unsubstantiated assertions. Mostly Daniel Pipes', by the looks of things.

Care to prove me wrong?

I have been reading a fair bit about these riots in the UK Daily Telegraph and alot of English people are horrified and appauled at the wanton destruction by a few selfish, destructive criminal thugs.

imho remote as we are but recognising similar events sould happen here - I would support using all necessary force to protect property albeit at the expense of the odd rioters cracked head

of course, the UK Riot Act of 1714 was repealed in 1973... maybe it should be resurrected...

It had a few useful caveats and clauses ideal for dealing with rioters

And pretending economic divide is the cause is a total cop out

economic levelling, of the socialist kind, will make things worse.

It would amount to rewarding criminals for their criminal activity and no different to paying protection money.

and on that, dearest Margaret said

"I do believe that political arrangements which are based upon violence, intimidation and theft will eventually break down - and will deserve to do so."

Police patrol the streets to maintain law and order.... their job is to crush these riots

and the job of the ordinary citizen is to support the police

>>British PM David Cameron failed to say that those on the streets should be aware that the only ones allowed to loot from the British public are bankers>>

Letter in today's Age newspaper.

HEAR, HEAR!

Pericles:

>>University of Grenoble Sociology and security professor Sebastian Roché estimates around 100 cars are burned across France on an average night,...>

See: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1688014,00.html

Graham Y,
White men don't have a history of rioting over Police shootings, Black and Asian men do.
What happened when Tyler Cassidy was shot?
The White establishment and media tried to frame him as a deranged White supremacist or a "suicide by cop".
Cops shoot White people all the time in this country and to my knowledge there's never even been a protest vigil in response, much less a riot.
I'd like to say that the same goes for London, common sense would dictate that it'd be so but I can't say for sure.

This isn't isolated behaviour by Blacks.
The U.S has almost daily attacks by "Flash Mobs" of Black teens robbing, beating and killing Whites and looting stores, it's so bad that the mayor of Philadlephia has come out pleading for Blacks to stop their kids from joining in Racially motivated beatings of Whites and Asians.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024223/Wisconsin-State-Fair-attacks-Philadelphia-Mayor-Michael-Nutter-blasts-racist-flash-mob.html

Now given the ubiquity of "social media" do you think that the London Blacks were unaware of what's happening stateside, not to mention on the continent where this sort of behaviour is also out of control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxxKXl2U7NM&feature=player_embedded
Notice all the people being hurt are White and all the people doing the hurting are Black? Yet the Whites in the crowd outnumber the Blacks maybe 100 to 1 and there's no retaliation whatsoever, notice the cops standing 20 metres away from the first melee doing nothing?.
Why? Because If a White man retaliates he'll go to jail for "Hate Crimes", in Europe you can't even look at a Black man the wrong way or you're in trouble.
Graham, you've made an assertion about White males, can you find me a video that backs your statement?

Bankers can be rewarded by the taxpayer for their fiscal greed,for causing misery for the populace. British MP's fiddle their expenses at the cost to the UK taxpayers, and The Head of the London Metropolitan police and his deputy, are sacked for corruption; and we ask why these riots happened.
Col Rouge gets his information from the Daily Telegraph! Sydney and UK one presumes.
Col, do you believe that Australia is not a society, as that is what Thatcher stated, and her callous indifference to the people of the UK, as come home to roost!!

Kman is there really a left wing newspaper in New York? Bloody oath what you learn!! :)

I think that the riot was carried out because of despicable contempt for the law because of the insane tax. For 1947-48 a special contribution was payable when a person’s income exceeded 2000 pounds. For investment income it was 50%. So with income tax at 45% and surtax at 52.5%, the effective rate was 147.5%. This took care of excessive salaries. Over the last few years though, the top personal tax has been 40% with VAT of 17.5%, allowing higher incomes for those whose incomes were not controlled and causing high prices for goods and services as well as reduced employment availability and very little income for many. So it is not surprising that – with a community already angry, they would not need very much of what they see as corruption of the police force, to get straight into action. Mark Duggan was armed with a converted starting pistol, but did not fire it, a policeman thought he was going to fire and shot him first---- maybe.

...Well, it just proves all welfare is bad; it leads to unemployable youth and riots. And just like daylight saving causes the curtains to fade, because of the extra daylight, if more blacks immigrate to our country then nocturnal crime will increase exponentially since black is more difficult to see at night: Blacks have more babies, one only needs a cursory glance at Ethiopia for proof of that, and look at the mess Ethiopia has got itself into because of too many black babies. Look also at France at the moment; how ungrateful are those North Africans, even when the overstretched thin blue line apologises for accidently killing a couple of black kids on a motorbike, they riot all the more. But it has all turned out to be a bit of a bonus for the French auto industry though; what with three hundred cars burned across France every night, the industry will soon consider employing black people to boost production.

...And hey, what better way to placate marauding hordes of black youths in New York than to elect a black mayor? Why didn’t someone think of that earlier? especially a black Mayor that is prepared to tell the same marauding blacks the truth, such as people don’t actually like black youths destroying the peace and serenity of the much needed white middle classes; that’s the ones living behind their gated cities and suburbs where they hide their children from the black criminal scourge; at least for the moment or until those fences are pushed over and they come and pick the roses. You know, like at Christmas Island when all those ungrateful Muslim boat people pushed over the fences of their compound and fled to the beach to swim and sunbake; how dare they enjoy themselves? Actually, come to think of it, I’ve lived through a few riots myself, but they were safely behind bars…or was it in front of bars?...

Gee Dan, when did you grow up, & get all that sense?

Ha! Predictable propaganda starts to emerge:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/unmasked-face-of-riots-a-surprise-20110811-1ioqp.html

Ask an older American southerner the meaning of the term "White Trash".
The White Anti Whites have turned it into a racial slur used to denigrate anyone who disagrees with them but to Blacks and Whites from that part of the world it's always referred to Whites who had relations with Negroes.
Bi Racial "Afro Caribbean" Londoners outnumber actual migrants from that area by about 5 to 1, this isn't a "Race problem" it's a racial ASSIMILATION problem.
You could argue "disadvantage" if there were actually distinct groups suffering specific hardships but the reality is that the trouble has emerged from Bi Racial ghettos which were purposely planned and carefully engineered by social scientists and politicians.

Mrs Thatcher's assertion that there was no such thing as society wasn't an observation it was a statement of intent.

Afro Carribeans along with Cockneys will be the first British Ethnic groups to succumb to the planned Genocide of the British nation and disappear into the "coffee coloured" morass so beloved of both Liberal and Leftists.

"And your latest bit of whimsy:>>In France alone there are 751 no-go areas... where police, emergency or any government vehicles will not enter because they will be fire bombed.”

Not only can I prove it Pericles but here is a French government list through Wikipedia that lists all 751 with addresses. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_urbaine_sensible

Re the cars burnt.That was during the riots..In the no-go suburbs, even before these current riots, 9,000 police cars had been stoned since the beginning of the year.
in 2 nights alone 1,295 vehicles are set on fire, 741 of which in Ile-de-France.
"Fifteen hundred cars burned on a single night and then, nine hundred, five hundred, two hundred, before “normalcy” was reached again (when ninety to 100 cars on average are torched every night in this gentle land of France). A new eternal flame, similar to the one at the Arc de Triomphe, burns in honour of the Unknown Immigrant.

In London Mohammed was the most popular baby name last year, ahead of Jack and Harry. Mohammed-Amine is the most popular double name, ahead of Jean-Baptiste, Pierre-Louis, Leo-Paul and Mohammed-Ali.

In Belgium, 50 percent of newborns are Muslim.The most popular baby name is Mohammed and of the top 7 baby names, 6 were Muslim. A quarter of Amsterdam, Marseilles and Rotterdam and a fifth of Stockholm is already Muslim. The most popular baby name in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam and The Hague is… Mohammed.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim.

Europe’s Muslim population doubled in the last generation.Europe’s Muslim population doubled in the last generation, and is set to double again. By 2025, (a decade and a half away), a third of all births in the EU will be Muslim. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are on track to be, by about 2015, the first major European cities with majority Muslim populations

Just as I suspected, kman.

All the product of your fevered imagination.

>>Not only can I prove it Pericles but here is a French government list through Wikipedia that lists all 751 with addresses<<

For the record, I know perfectly well that there are 751 ZUS.

What you - and the likes of Daniel Pipes - add to the story is that these are "no-go areas", where "police, emergency or any government vehicles will not enter because they will be fire bombed". I have personally been to three ZUS in the past two years, and walked unharmed through all three. I've eaten in restaurants, drunk wine in their cafes. All services - police, fire, ambulance - were operational. You know absolutely nothing about them, instead you read - and pass on as "truth" - stuff that is designed to get your fear-and-loathing sensors all hot and excited.

>>Re the cars burnt.That was during the riots<<

So, you admit that what you wrote - "on an average night in France 300 vehicles will be torched" was merely inflammatory garbage. That's a start, I suppose.

I notice also that you never provide references to anything you allege that you know about. Can't say that surprises me. I can only assume from that, that you have done some more research, and found that all that stuff about generations of families collecting welfare, and "most major cities" is also a load of garbage.

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself. I know you won't be, because your type - people who gleefully pass on every mendacious titbit that supports their prejudice and bigotry - never are.

But strangely, and against all the evidence, I continue to hope that one day you will realize how destructive all this mindless hatred can be.

And grow up.

I'm wondering how anyone can expect parents in these 'poor' societies - whether single or not, foreign or not - to be able to influence their childrens values when there is no respect in the wider society for these poor parents.

It's clear to the kids that their parents are failures, they are poor and powerless, so why bother with their values. It seems to them that really successful people, like Rupert Murdoch, don't value truth or justice. Of course it wasn't Murdoch that actually did the dirty deeds; it was his organisation who bribed police, disobeyed the laws and violated people's rights.

Did Murdoch 'take responsibility' for this really bad behaviour or suffer any sort of punishment? His bad behavior wasn't violent or overtly destructive, but the effect of his unethical publication of anything that will make money does have destructive effects on the way we value families, and other values that we all want our kids to have.

He may claim that he didn't know and he will fix what was a one off problem, but nobody in those London suburbs believes that. They believe that rich people do what they want and don't ever have to pay.

Well “Hasbeen”…

As they used to say in the old days (When there was a God), “But for the grace of God, there goes me”! But my story is an enactment of my poor old mothers philosophy, (except for the last line of course); she was a dyed in the wool CWA country girl, God rest her soul!

Mollydukes

>> He (Murdoch) may claim that he didn't know and he will fix what was a one off problem, but nobody in those London suburbs believes that. They believe that rich people do what they want and don't ever have to pay. <<

I agree.

With the rich and powerful setting the 'standards', we expect the poor to behave any better?

Different ways of screwing the average person, but lead to distopia either way.

Please don't listen to Daniel Pipes, or David Horowitz, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Nick Griffin etc.
You're all intelligent, educated adults, you should know better.

Also this, how can we trust a media that treats people this way,"Have some respect for an old West Indian Negro", damn right, this is an appalling interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDQCT0AJcw

Ah Diver, the old Country Women's Association , what magic we have lost!

I was at a reunion of old racing drivers a while back. The conversation was not about what hot shots we were, but about our cancers, operations & other ailments. Took me back it did. It felt just like the CWA meetings I had to go to as a boy.

Oh, & Jay, you leave those coffee coloured people alone. In the areas of PNG & the Solomon Islands that had Japanese occupation for some time during the war, it's really working.

You will find many people of very mixed race, with Melanesian, Polynesian, Japanese, Chinese & European blood, or some mixture of them flowing in their veins. The blokes are strong fit healthy, & industrious, & often very successful.

The women, on the other hand are, with out doubt, the most beautiful I have ever seen anywhere.

Yep, coffee colour is good.

its worth holding back radicle opinion
till all the facts are in

here is some media analisys
of just how wrong biased right wing red necked media can be

just egsactly how wrong
media reporting can be..so for future refereance

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/10/guardian-aljazeera-set-straight-corporate-media-lies-london-riots-53711/

Ah Pericles, musing earlier re your nom de forum. I remembered that Pericles was considered an eloquent speaker who "carried the thunder and lightning on his tongue." I thought what a pretentious person this forum Pericles is. Surely this character doesn't actually think he is up in the same league as the original Pericles. But I was wrong -every paragraph you write reeks of superiority and a smugness that I personally have never encountered before. It's as if anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint has intelligence a little lower than a snail and hardly worthy of your so superior beliefs.
You have to be a retired academic who is still preaching that sanctimonious pervasive academic witches brew of a Marxist-driven agenda of blame the west.
Joseph Stalin during the cold war called you western liberals " Useful idiots" and it appears that you sport, fit right in to the category of those who support genocidal aggressors, and instead blame the west and those who want to protect their own cultures and their western way of life. And while every government in Europe is reeling from the complete disaster that is multiculture, where Inmans openly preach from street corners and mosques the violent overthrow of their hosts government and the introduction of a barbaric 7th. Century Sharia law, you continue this absurd quest to pour these violent tribes peoples who commit especially violent crimes in proportions way outside their numbers in to quiet civilised western cities, while their hapless citizens flee to small towns and other even countries.

This part I really like..."But strangely, and against all the evidence, I continue to hope that one day you will realise how destructive all this mindless hatred can be. "
This mindlessness Pericles is the belief that these tribes people will ever assimilate and actually live in peace and contribute positively to their host countries"

You Pericles and your fellow pseudo intellectuals /academics / social engineers continue to push this absurd agenda of multiculture on western societies, and the out come is what you see in London and the rest of Europe today. No, not all the London rioters were black but their black gangs started it, were the majority and the whites were just criminal opportunists. This will happen time and time again, because these people have large families, will stay uneducated and living on the dole with nothing to do but to join gangs and cause crime and civil unrest. . Britain and Europe are finished.

And by the way Pericles, you described my mention of the French no-go areas " as another fantasy" Yet now you claim to have actually been there after I proved it with the actual French government list. And if these no - go areas are so safe, why does the French government list them and warn tourists about them? Actually Pericles I hate to use the "L" word but I can see why you would say that you have actually been there to cover your embarrassment.

As for Daniel Pipes. No we should listen to Pilger, Chomsky, Irene Khan and the rest of the western hating Marxist ratbags eh Pericles?

And in Australia.. Tim Priest in an article for Quadrant Jan.-Feb. 2004, "The Rise of Middle Eastern Crime in Australia". His wrote of his own experience 'on the beat' which confirmed that "the rise of Middle Eastern organised crime in Sydney will have an impact on our society unlike anything yet seen. But the corruption and decay is much deeper than that. Organised crime, drugs, gangs, extortion, tax evasion, fraud, these have now reached a level where they are damaging the national economy. "
But of course Pericles you would never believe this.

In his book "Disuniting of America" Liberal historian Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. speaks out against radical multiculturalism. 'The rising cult of ethnicity, he argues, threatens a common American identity, imperilling the civic ideals that traditionally have bonded immigrants into a nation."

Muslims will soon make up the majority in all major cities. "Today, we have 1 million Muslims out of 16 million Dutch," according to Frits Bolkestein, Dutch politician and former EU Commissioner. "Within 10 years, they will have an absolute majority in both Amsterdam and Rotterdam. We are staring into the face of a shortly to be divided community. Muslims have the right to their own schools, so there is no teaching of evolution, gay teachers are not tolerated but anti-Semitism is." A researcher for the Netherlands Ministry for Immigration and Integration found that 40% of young Moroccan Muslims in the Netherlands rejected Western values and democracy. Six to seven percent were prepared to use force to "defend" Islam, and the majority was opposed to freedom of speech for offensive statements, particularly criticism of Islam.
http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/resources/islamification+europe.html.

Kman.
Add Frits Bolkestein to the list, he's not a reliable source on Islam, don't listen to him.
Like Geert Wilders Bolkestein has "Indo" ancestry, look closely at what that might mean, do some research on which particular ethno religious group were dominant in the Indonesian operations of the Dutch East India company.
Actually, just read his speeches on Israel...no point beating about the bush.

Spot on Graham. I for one (and from an Indigenous perspective) could harp on about the injustices we suffered (and continue to) because of 'British immigration'. But life has taught me that decency and good will don't come from insular and xenophobic ideals, we all need to work out how to live together on this little green blue planet. In fact I think this is perhaps the quest we as human beings must gradually understand and embrace if our kids are to have any respect for us when they look back on these turbulent times in their old age. I'd like to think my grandchildren would be proud of me for being a inclusive humanist, not a narrow minded bigot. The white Australian policy was abandoned in the early 1970's and thank god for that!

For the record, so called "white people" only represent 20% of the world’s population so I don't think any of these ideas about protecting "Anglo heritage" is either logical or feasible. The anglophiles here need to get over themselves, or travel to another planet. Yes there are ethnic tensions but I don’t think for a moment that retrofitting the planet to match some largely imagined geopolitical ideals based on racial boundaries is the answer. Welcome to the global community guys!

At least I know what I'm talking about, kman.

>>And by the way Pericles, you described my mention of the French no-go areas " as another fantasy" Yet now you claim to have actually been there after I proved it with the actual French government list.<<

The fantasy part is that they are not "no-go areas" at all. Except to you and Daniel Pipes, of course. They are zones that have specific economic needs, for which their local government is given various tax concessions by the State.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_urbaine_sensible

There's a "translate" button for you if you need it.

>>And if these no - go areas are so safe, why does the French government list them and warn tourists about them?<<

They don't. Another Daniel Pipes fiction. You are very gullible, you know.

>>Actually Pericles I hate to use the "L" word but I can see why you would say that you have actually been there to cover your embarrassment.<<

That - along with your pathetic attempt to pigeonhole me as a "retired academic" - is so wide of the mark, it's comical. Have you ever actually been to France? Or anywhere overseas, for that matter?

>>And in Australia.. Tim Priest in an article for Quadrant Jan.-Feb. 2004... But of course Pericles you would never believe this.<<

What has that to do with ZUS?

But I guess it was about time to change the subject, wasn't it.

Hasbeen.
Yeah your generation of Whites love their "coffee coloured" people, it's a Boomer thing.
More to the point Boomers love the idea of a great big melting pot, mostly because they don't have to live in a Ghetto full of out of control bi racial kids and deadbeat parents.
If racial assimilation was bad for Aboriginals and North Americans explain to me how it can be good for Britons or ethnic White Australians?

@Rainer,

<< I don’t think for a moment that retrofitting the planet to match some largely imagined geopolitical ideals based on racial boundaries is the answer >>

Well, then, I guess you’ll be joining with me in calling for the end of those special Aboriginal territories –ay?

Welcome to the global community, Rainer !

I'd have to say that I find some of the things being spouted by the self-identified racists on this thread as very disturbing. For example the idea that only people who aren't "white" however they think they can define "white" riot.

There is plenty of evidence that the people doing these things come from all racial groups. For example http://www.smh.com.au/world/stereotype-of-the-underclass-does-not-apply-20110811-1iowa.html.

In stigmatising Muslims as a group they pull prison statistics from France, not England to "prove" that Muslims are inherently criminal. In fact, if you look at prison populations anywhere they seem to over-represent particular out groups - blacks and hispanics in the US, Aborigines here - for example.

And they neglect the fact that the majority of members of those groups aren't in jail, and often, as in the case of the man in the video I posted above, are upright and moral members of the community.

Thanks for that, Hasbeen, you're spot-on. Roll on, the 22nd century.

In a sort of defence of this revolutionary wave of the Dictatorship of the New Lumpen-Proletariat, they could all wave a hypothetical sign saying,

'No Bookshops Were Harmed In Any Way During These Riots.'

Joe

Graham.
You're only calling me a Racist because I'm White Anti Racism is a code word for anti White.
The reaction of your generation to Black people misbehaving is always "But White people are worse! Looooook!", every time without fail.
I was sitting here waiting to pounce on the first Baby Boomer to start up that old White Guilt bandwagon, I was actually pretty shocked to find it was you.
What you're doing is covering for the abject failure of your generation in relation to multiculturalism.
More than that your generation has also failed in every other area, the Boomers are a failed generation and we of the two succeeding generations needn't feel any guilt over kicking you to the kerb at the earliest opportunity.
There's no difference between a boomer Redneck "Racist" and an intellectual Boomer "Anti Racist", since neither of them grew up in a multiracial society their opinions needn't be given the slightest consideration.

It was mentioned by a couple of posters here to justify the riots, that the banks are just as guilty of theft, in reference no doubt to the sub-prime mortage meltdown.

I blame the blacks in America for the sub-prime mortage meltdown. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The democrats, (Bill Clinton's Government),similar to a labour government in Australia, who depend on a lot of the black vote to win power in America, Instructed the banks to not be so tough on lending money to the poor,(majority of whom are blacks) so they could gain access to housing. A wonderful opportunity for black Americans.

The banks knowing the loans were risky sold them on to other financial interests and overseas banks. The black people defaulted on these loans in huge masses. Thus bringing down the world financial markets and the stockmarket.
I put the blame squarely at the feet of the Democrats(labour Government & left wing bleeding heart academics)and the black people in America for the crash.

Would someone please enlighten me if I have got that wrong.
Because that is the impression I was left with by media coverage of it. Although no one ever said this directly. It seems to me that the more we in the West try to help these ethnic groups the more we get dragged down by them.

Sorry, (I just noticed), I should have spelt it mortgage.

"At least I know what I'm talking about, kman."
Of course you do Pericles, and that just confirms my point - only you are right and everybody else is wrong.

"The fantasy part is that they are not "no-go areas" at all. Except to you and Daniel Pipes, of course."

Ah your Daniel Pipes under the bed obsession again. I never once mentioned Pipes; it came from the Brussels Journal...
“In May, the French voters elected Mr. Sarkozy as president because he had promised to restore the authority of the Republic over France’s 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people – 8 percent of the population – live….
People get mugged, even murdered, in the ZUS, but the media prefer not to write about it. When large-scale rioting erupts and officers and firemen are attacked, the behaviour of the thugs is condoned with references to their “poverty” and to the “racism” of the indigenous French. The French media never devote their attention to the bleak situation of intimidation and lawlessness in which 8 percent of the population, including many poor indigenous French, are forced to live. Muslim racism towards the “infidels” is never mentioned.” http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2868

"Have you ever actually been to France? Or anywhere overseas, for that matter?"
Actually I lived overseas for a few months short of 30 years, and have travelled through many third world countries and have also seen the disastrous results of your multiculture on the people of the west. From bombings to murder, rapes, robberies and civil unrest, while you and your fellow idiots of the west pretend that all is well, and we can all benefit from the fruits of diverse societies…
Trevor Phillips, chairman of the UK's Commission for Racial Equality, having described those with doubts about multiculturalism as "racists" and "xenophobes" (Guardian, 16.2.04 ) suddenly decided two months later that multiculturalism is finished)

(The Times, 3.4.04 Multiculturalists...have opened a new front in their assault on rationality. -
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Literature Nobel laureate)

England is a cesspit. England is a breeding ground of fundamentalist Muslims. - Wole Soyinka (Literature Nobel laureate)

"That - along with your pathetic attempt to pigeonhole me as a "retired academic" - is so wide of the mark, it's comical"
So it's laughable that anyone could mistake you for an academic? Sorry for thinking you could be smart enough, and I do apologise to the academics.

"And in Australia.. Tim Priest in an article for Quadrant Jan.-Feb. 2004" ...What has that to do with ZUS?"
It has everything to do with it, because it is an example of what has happened in Europe is now happening in Australia. And here you are pretending to be intelligent.

"But I guess it was about time to change the subject, wasn't it."
I don’t need to change any subject sport because you just got shot down again. But I am tired of your redundant and immature sarcasm, and there is really no point in continuing because…

“Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. .. [they hate] America and the West because they are strong and successful...

Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative," "enterprise," "optimism," etc., play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti- individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's problems for them. ... The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser...” Theodore Kaczynski.

So what’s the point in debating a leftist loser? So I won't be reading any more of your redundant schoolboy leftist tripe, and don't forget to turn the lights off when you go - but first check under the bed for Daniel Pipes!

cheekfull..quote..""I blame the blacks in America..for the sub-prime mortage meltdown.""

yeah they lent money to those THEY KNEW couldnt afford to repay
THEY made the FRAUD securities..rated at AAA+

mate get serious
bankers did that
rating adgencies did that
it was BANKS not trusting other banks
because THEY KNOW..they lied..thus their mates MUST have lied TOO

Please correct me if I am wrong.

clinton""The democrats..Instructed the banks
to not be so tough on lending money to the poor,"""

so it was the black hearted clinton?

""(majority of whom are blacks)""

your buzz word makes anyone 'a black'
but many 'white' poor got caught in this bank led STING too..!

latinoes fit into the white poor
very few negroes got loans

but mate they dont approve loans
or tell them to lie..or fill in paperwork for them
[it was greed mate..easy commision..just add an '0']

they neded moertgauige backing for the 'other' suss securuities
[only hard REAL-estate..gets an AAA+]..so we need signatures on mortgauges..the cry went out

and the ratings adgencies CREATED AAA+
that was then onsold to pensiion funds
with GREAT big bonus/COMMISIONS
for all the 'whities'
white collar



the BLACK..""banks knowing the loans were risky
sold them on to other financial interests and overseas banks.""

see how much even YOU know
it wernt the blacks..but those 'other'
you gladly call brother

""Although no one ever said this directly.
It seems to me that the more we in the West
try to help these..ethnic groups the more we get dragged down by them""

mate the more we judge others
simply by their colour or collar
the more we judged others wrong

good will do only good
bad looks for clever ways to do bad

recardless of what skin their in
its what..*is in their mind..that they are

An excellent question, kman.

>>So what’s the point in debating a leftist loser?<<

None whatsoever. A bit like arguing with someone who uses the Brussels Journal - "The Voice of Conservatism in Europe" - as their source of inspiration.

But perhaps you persevere because, having been found out telling porkies - or, more accurately, mindlessly reprinting someone else's fictions - your only refuge is in insults.

Or what you clearly believe are insults.

>>So it's laughable that anyone could mistake you for an academic? Sorry for thinking you could be smart enough, and I do apologise to the academics.<<

What is really laughable, kman, is that you consider the words "retired" and "academic" as being somehow pejorative. You clearly despise anyone who has greater learning than you.

Which is a little worrying.

For you, that is.

one under God

<the Black..."banks knowing the loans were risky
sold them on to other financial interests and overseas banks.">

I didn't say the black banks, I said the banks knowing the sub-prime mortage loans were risky sold them on.

<regardless of what skin they're in
it's what..*is in their mind..that they are>

I don't judge individuals by the colour of their skin, I am sure they are very nice people. But humans have survival instincts (territorial), driven by biology, and huge tribes of differing skin colours and bloodline(races),can suddenly rise up and kill the other group as we have witnessed recently in Rwanda and in just about every other war on the planet.

It's not about whether people are nice or nasty. The same as a territorial animal is not any more nice or nasty than another territorial animal,it is just a biological survival instinct.

You can see how animals quickly become extinct in the world today because they have lost control of their territory, usually because of the spread of man. Human tribes also become extinct without control of land. Hence wars are not about nasty or nice but fear of non survival. Racial wars will happen despite how nice the people of different races are. This is a major misconception about the causes of racism. As you can see, despite there being masses of basically good people amongst countrys and races, wars and killing have still prevailed.

black banks was a double entendre
black hearted black suited black acts

you talk about tribalism
when its not tribalism..its basicly feeling abused

in rewanda from memory
there was a ruling elite
much like java..dominates the 1000's of island nationstates

or like the dutch..abused guinie
or the brits did..to india
or the jews do..to the semite arabs..in what was palestein

mate we arnt animals
we chose to hurt others..or resist hurting others
the simple fact remains..the elite black..is as bad as the elite white

the good black..is as good as the best white
its not the colour of the skin..but the percieved threat someone poses

go to pasrlement house..in canberra
there you will see the pictures of past members of govt
go to the womans section..

and you will note..there are at least 7 half cast aborigonals
that sat pre 'the first ab/origonal*..the honerable mr bonner

what of the albino..born from dark parents
skin clour..is the worst measure for judging anyone

i have met good and bad in all colours
all sexes and all creeds

its not what we look like
but what vile..we find in our heart..that we will to do

""biological survival instinct.""

mate tell me what possable real threat
TO YOUR OWN SURVIVAL..could you possable have presently

sure c02 warming..might scare you to death
or you might die of fright if a dark skinned nice guy/gal says hello

but basicly mate there is no excuse
to fear for your survival
that is in anyway a specific real threat..from some racist 'darkie'

""see how animals quickly become extinct..because they have lost control..of their territory,""

mate i see most animals
living basiclly..in peace

sure a lion hunts/kills to survive[eat]
but not from fear..or hate..or spite..

""usually because of the spread of man.""
forcing them into survival mode

destruction of habitat..[like in the amason]
but even there..its man to be feared..not the 'beasts'

""Human tribes also become extinct..without control of land.""

mate if they got a fed..medicin/activity..hope
they survive just fine

""wars are not about nasty or nice
but fear of non survival.""

no most wars are about control over assets/resources
oil/gas..slaves gold silver diamonds
its about greed..not survival

think every war ever fought
was paid for by someone
that exopected to gain something
war repatriatiion's

""wars and killing have still prevailed""
its mostly about stealing their wealth/labour/resources

hating other..when they got
what you want..!

one under God

<sure a lion hunts/kills to survive[eat]
but not from fear..or hate..or spite..>

That is exactly my point when referring to the biological programming of the human species, that the aggression is coming from a survival imperative, imprinted by the laws of nature.

However I'd like to make the observation that a territorially threatened animal does react with fear, hostility, and violent aggression to any animal that it perceives as a territorial threat.

Humans call this behaviour racism. It is actually coming from a deeper place than just some vague dislike of skin colour or the way someone looks. Those things are only superficialities hardly worth all the horrendous hate and bloodshed we've seen.

cont....

.......continued from above

You state,
<no most wars are about control over assets/resources
oil/gas..slaves gold silver diamonds
its about greed..not survival>

These things you mention, assets,resources,oil,gas,slaves,gold,silver diamonds are all territorial resources that allow humans to survive at a very high level of sustenance and provision. As I said, humans are territorial and being territorial also involves being top dog or monkey or lion in the animal kingdom as well.

A male with a lot of territorial assets can get the best and the most females to breed with. Look at Rod Stewart for starters.
Rupert Murdoch with his young good looking wife. She's not with him and having children with him because of his looks, that's for sure. It is about the territorial wealth he can provide her children and their children with for generations. That's the only reason she's there.

Wars are about the acquistion of territorial wealth not some unbearable dislike of skin colour or features. It is more about the wellbeing and sustanence of the agressors than it is about dislike in particular of the attacked. As I said It is a survival instinct.

ohh cheerful
i look at the parts of the word
bio/logical...so logic is dependant on our biology

yet you say its more about feminin logic
i will add in my male bit[log*ic sic]

""biological programming of the human species,""

ok we are 'programed as children
into being 'good little boys/girls or 'other'

for girls its taught that with 'boys' its
""that the aggression is coming from a survival imperative,
imprinted by the laws of nature.""

so your being nasty son
because your a male

and that boy was nasty to you
cause you didnt..'serve his needs'..like his mum did

""territorially threatened animal
does react with fear, hostility, and violent aggression
to any animal that it perceives as a territorial threat.""

they 'fight for a mate'
they fight for fear
for them its about personal space
personal emotions..they cant empathise
like we can

""Humans call this behaviour racism.""

no animals arnt races
thus cannot be racist
its just beastly nature

""skin colour or the way someone looks...Those things are only superficialities..hardly worth all the horrendous hate and bloodshed we've seen.""

yes i agree

""territorial resources
that allow humans to survive
at a very high level of sustenance and provision.""

ie stuff that gets you the girl
realise girls LOVE Power
men love brains

an average girl withy a good mind
will get the 'powerfull man everytiime

""humans are territorial""
you say huh-mans
but are you including BOTH sexes?
cause im not terror-tory/al

some sick humans cant share
but most are just fine sharing
especially in times of disaster or emergency

WE arnt all terror-torial beasts

yes SOME..[ie those 3 guys ran over by a looter?]
so bent on proecting a garage..
they thought they could stop a person in pANIC*..
who run them over..and killed them.

ITS TRADJIC
and yes that case was..
[may have been]..about terrortory protection

BUT stealing 4 botles of water was about need
that dosnt DESERVE 6 months jail..!

stealing a colour big scren was about ego
[wanting more than you earned]..

NOTHING terrortorial..

""A male with a lot of territorial assets
can get the best""

but the best what?
rod?

again here there are no generalities
only destractive faulse judgments
WE DONT KNOW..boys/girls met up[matxchup]..as well as they do

the why in your egsamples
""and the most females to breed with.""

again with rupert..its not about QUANTITY..but quality*

i got no idea re the "rod"..stewhard
[he just might be insecure and addicted to love or sex

""Look at Rod Stewart for starters.""

no thanks

""Rupert Murdoch with his young good looking wife.""

hey..!
she is top shelf
clever ..inteligent..thoughfull..fast
[rupert can buy all the love his blue pills can energise him into]
there is much more to that woman than many could imagine [or appriciate]

''She's not with him and having children with him
because of his looks, that's for sure.""

ya think he isnt POWERRFULL..or smart?
or good with his blue pills?..or other things
that woman really think is more important..like honesty..or generousity..or appriciativeness..kindness?

[ie the active qualities
that get re-active appriciations[fruits]

rather than mere words