Dear Grim,

“if you don't vote, don't whinge!”

Perhaps you only consider it a slogan, but that would in fact be true if governments knew their place. If all legislation pertained only to the public realm, not interfering with what individuals or groups of individuals do or don't in their own space so long as it does not hurt the rest of society, then truly, anyone who does not contribute to the welfare of the public domain should remain silent if/when it is not handled in the best way.

"Does inflicting unnecessary pain on an animal also bring one closer to this deity of yours, Yuyie?
If so, who needs it."

I do my best not to inflict pain on animals. This, I tend to believe, brings me closer to God. If, however, I were to interfere with other's free choice whether or not to inflict pain on animals, then I would deny them the option of coming closer to God themselves in this way. I would have been denying them the option of expressing their love of God from their own hearts.

As to "who needs it": as there is nothing but God, you would not be here to ask this question otherwise.

I did not, BTW, call God a deity, but I understand that you were referring to Muslims and Jews: well, I do not agree with their slaughtering practices - but then I do not agree with any form of slaughtering (I am vegetarian myself). I do however believe that their honest intent of serving God in this way, misguided as it may be, outweighs the actual pain they cause to the animal.

I really like your comments about the miserable quality of the Australian electoral system.

Dear Csteele,

I certainly agree with you that denying prisoners their right to vote is an atrocity. Australian prisoners are indeed denied more rights than in most other countries. I heard they are not allowed to bring books, clothes and other personal items into prison.

As for "to safeguard the ability of the disempowered to participate in having a say in the way they are governed", I suggest that this could be solved by people ticking a box when enrolling for elections, whether or not they wish the authorities to make sure that they vote. Obviously it is criminal to deny another their right to vote.

I think you would have guessed by now my view about "Australian's right to work in a safe environment". I'll leave you to contemplate on the issue.

Dear King Hazza,

I loved your comments about donkey-voting.

Perhaps compulsory voting in this country was born of a tradition of maximum enfranchisement. Australia was one of the first countries to allow women the vote and indeed the state of South Australia was the first in the world to allow them to stand at elections. Certainly women during that era made up the bulk of the disempowered in society

King Hazza put up a few examples of countries that do not have compulsory voting, one was Switzerland where 25 out of the 26 cantons do not, yet this is a country where women did not get the vote until 1971. Hardly a poster child for democracy.

It should be noted though that Australia did not give unrestricted voting rights to Aboriginal people until the 1960s. King Hazza's 'lazy' comment and Col Rouge's “If the bogans are too busy, squandering their welfare benefits on trinkets, instead of voting socialist into power to bribe them with more welfare, I have no objection” could well echo the arguments against giving universal voting rights to our indigenous folk back then.

It is interesting that in South America, where compulsory voting is prevalent in quite a number of countries, some have extended the vote to the 16-18 year olds although non-compulsory at that age. Again supporting an ethic of enfranchisement.

As to Yuyutsu's idea of ticking a box why not put one on the ballot paper marked with a picture of a donkey. Far easier for the 'lazy' people to tick rather than 1,2,3,4,5,6 and it would save donkey votes skewing the results as some have feared.

As to the notion that hordes are turning up to polling booths with absolutely no idea of the issues or who to vote for, poppycock! I have no problems in our parliamentary system of people voting purely on the personality and perceived character of the leaders and supporting that through a vote for the appropriate local candidate. I think in the case of Latham the people got it right even though purely on issues Howard should have been out on his ear that election.

"It should be noted though that Australia did not give unrestricted voting rights to Aboriginal people until the 1960s. King Hazza's 'lazy' comment and Col Rouge's “If the bogans are too busy, squandering their welfare benefits on trinkets, instead of voting socialist into power to bribe them with more welfare, I have no objection” could well echo the arguments against giving universal voting rights to our indigenous folk back then."

Horrible strawman; it would be the same if I actually demanded people who were uninformed were prevented from voting- and I'm sorry to tell you, being too unmotivated to vote isn't a restriction- it is as much saying that I'm restricting a person's right to be sober because I didn't ban alcohol, preventing them being put in a position of actually having to decide for themselves if they want to drink or not.

However, I could much more easily insinuate that with some states most likely continuing compulsory preferences, and all states continuing electoral representatives, that compulsory voting is more reminiscent of Robert Mugabe forcing people to vote for him.

After all, YOU are the one who wants to override people's right to choice and to make your own decision for them.

Dear King Hazza,

Robert Mugabe indeed. Lol. Okay, your straw man is bigger than my straw man.

At the last federal election before compulsory voting the voter turnout was under 60% but since then it hasn't dropped below 90%. I reject totally the idea that our democracy and therefore our country isn't better served by the participation of that extra 30%. As donkey voting contributes less than a percent to the result I think it is evident we are seeing yet another strawman.

Even Julie Bishop, the deputy leader of the Liberal party, in a piece calling for voluntary voting concedes “Turnout has never been below 90 per cent and while the number of informal votes can vary, there is little evidence as to what extent this represents acts of error, apathy or protest.”
http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/the-bishops-gambit/vote--or-else-20100303-pgqd.html

The one party that consistently raises the issue of compulsory voting is the Liberals. Yet this is the same party that stripped voting rights from prisoners and closed the rolls on the day the election writs were issued instead of the traditional seven days after, thus disenfranchising close to 100,000 young voters. Would your response have been if they were too 'lazy' to register themselves knowing an election was in the offing then the don't deserve to be heard on election day?

Csteele you are still talking a complete load of rubbish;

Giving people the choice not to vote is absolutely nothing like actually putting in obstacles to people actually attempting to vote, or outright banning people from voting.
You obviously missed my last analogy entirely (and the fact that you can't think outside a liberal/labor issue shows a worrying lack of rational evaluation skills, and are only able to think in simple binary opposites).

Now, the voter turnout is nothing but a number for the people who showed up to an election station solely to avoid a fine. Some like to pretend this number in any way makes us look better- but they are simply shallow fools.
Now, if these people take the process seriously and are indeed enriching our vote, then certainly they will still be motivated to appear if voting were voluntary.
If they were not, I would hardly consider the vote 'enriched' at all; and the only people who disagree with that are ones who only want CV because they think it will help the chances of their favorite party getting in, or least favorite political minorities and parties forming a substantial vote- which is actually anti-democratic thinking.
I could very much compare the active policymaking and improvements done in Europe and even the USA under Obama as much more substantial to what we have been getting here- which has been almost entirely posturing.