My problem with any refugee/immigration/population increase is at what stage do we say we cannot take anymore?

So what is the limit that we can cope with 10, 100000, 1 million a year.

That is if we have an open door policy then we may have to build a new Sydney every year.

Our infrastructure is not coping with our existing population, just look at traffic congestion or hospital waiting lists.

Every additional refuge/immigrant/birth is making the situation worse.

Claire Parfaitt:

We are witnessing the resurgence of a movement, led by detainees and supported by many in the Australian community.

Amendment: Delete "many" insert "a few."

During the disturbances some of the buildings caught fire.

"Yep. It was a miracle, there we were on the roof & suddenly the building spontainiously combusted." ?.?.?.

Basic amenities like showers, toothbrushes and toilet paper, were denied.

Lie. Each cell has it's own hygine facilities.

the federal government increased its border protection budget from $654 million to $1.2 billion.

Money being wasted on illegal immigrants when that money could be spent on improving Australian Health Care or Road infrastructure.

Why does the Australian Government spend so much money and time criminalising people who come to Australia to escape persecution and poverty, while facilitating entry for hundreds of thousands of people on skilled migrant, working holiday, temporary work and student visas?

The difference between illegal & legal. It's not rocket science.

Immigration control enables the government to demonise asylum seekers and mark them out as scapegoats for its own failures to meet the needs of Australian residents frustrated by failing health, education and social welfare systems.

You have answered your own question.

Fifty refugee activists travelled to Curtin to visit the centre, but were refused entry.

Naturally. Personally I'd have made you sign a release to say that you would stay with the detainees untill they were released. Then let you in. ;-)

hundreds of activists in Melbourne and Sydney converged on Villawood and Maribyrnong,

Not many considering. A ragtag group of misfits.

Thirty protestors stormed a university lecture to interrupt a speech by Chris Bowen last week

Extremely bad manners. but can be expected from a group of badly behaved misfits.

The burgeoning refugee rights movement in Australia today shows that the Australian community is again acknowledging that it has more in common with the people who come here struggling for a better life than we do with the powers that paint us as enemies.

I agree. These people have come to australia illegally therefore are criminals. et tu

Wow! Claire must be a magician.

Anyone who can find a "burgeoning refugee rights movement in Australia" must have the skills of a Harry Potter, or the imagination of his creator.

During the disturbances some of the buildings caught fire.

I think you mean.

During the disturbances some of the buildings were set on fire.

How much longer do we have to put up with these lies and spin?

O Dear,
Another silly greenie sheila that lives in the garden with the fairies, and maybe smokes stuff as well.

In short, sweetie. The reason we dislike the 'illegals' so much is because they are illegal. It is against our law to enter Aus without a visa, even the UNHCR says refugees must obey a countries laws.

It is because they are illegal that we can detain them. We do not detain those entering legally. They are shonks and con artists who get here by deceit and bribery. In short gate crashers.

Australian rules and laws are founded on christian values and apply to all Australian people whether they are a christian, an agnostic or an athiest.
Most of the refugees arriving on our shores are muslems and have entirely different views and ethics than ours.
The muslem peoply in Australia are attempting to have our laws changed to muslem law or at least have it included in with our laws.
I find this offensive to the people of Australia. If they come to our country they should be compelled to adapt to our customs and laws, NOT attempt to bring their customs and laws to force onto us the people of Australia.
Muslem Sharia law threatens all none muslems. Muslems beleive their desiny is to rule the world and they beleive in death to the us the infidels who do not follow their muslem beleifs or gods.
I have extreme concerns of muslem mass immagration into christian countries especially at the rate they are doing it. They will soon overtake the people in the christian countries. When they do this will they revolt and take those and our country?
If they do will they exterminate all non muslems?
Many of their imams incite the muslem people to condemn our values and cultures.
Are the muslem refugees using the tactics Japan used prior to entering world war2?
Japan infiltrated many South Pacific countries with their military forces and when they declared war they took those countries in a very short time.
For the minority few who welcome the muslem refugees the majority of Australians are against them coming to our country.

gypsy

Christians may make claim to certain values, however they cannot claim to have invented them.

Let's have a look:

Worship of god above all things - including family and friends
Fidelity in marriage
Faith
Rejecting worldly goods
Rejecting violence
Forgiveness
Love
Righteousness

These 'values' were not invented by Jesus, were held by Jews and many others well before Christianity. Worshiping a deity cannot be said to be a 'value' it is a form of behaviour.

Fidelity in marriage - again many people were faithful to each other before Christianity and was required in many religions BEFORE Christianity.

Faith - the one which trumps over evidence and again was not invented by Christians.

Rejecting Worldly Goods - good one this, like George W Bush and John Howard, any number of evangelists have taken a vow of poverty. Again not originating with Christianity.

Rejecting Violence - Coalition of the Willing, KKK, Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, paedophile priests .... this is a really long list.

Forgiveness - or turning the other cheek, not much in evidence by our resident Christians on OLO nor in the world at large, also not original Christian concept.

Love - Give me a break, Christians did not invent love thy neighbour.

Righteousness - love this; the right to be more dogmatic than others, not living and let live, the right to discriminate against others, such as Moslems.

In fact Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

A referendum should be put to the people of Australia asking us the people if we agree to the muslem refugees relocating to our country Australia.
How many sleeping terrorist groups are now living here and waiting for the call to arms?
As previously stated in other posts mentioning the costs involved to process and keep them all at the cost of our taxes.
Taxes that should be used for the benefit of the Australian people and not the muslem refugees.
The illegal boat people should be immediately deported on arrival. If our Government adopted this policy it would be a deterant and send a message to other muslem people considering the same crime. This would make it difficult for the criminal people smugglers to continue their criminal activities, and which our government is an active assistant of the crime by permitting it to continue. To aid and abett a criminal offence is a crime under the criminal code act. This indicates that our federal and start governments by failing to deport illegal people entering Australia are in fact committing a crime.
Some may think my comments as racist but I can assure you I am not I am a passionate Australian and love my country and its people and feel it is my duty to protect it for our children and future generations of Australian people.
I realise there would be critics who do not support my views so before condemning me I suggest they do their research as I have before making up their minds. Look at what is occuring in other christion countries that have accepted muslem rfugees! Great Briton, U.S.A. Sweden, Norway, France Canada, they are all having problems which we have not been fully confronted with but we will be destined to face the same if we fail to act now. It is up to all of us the Australian people. We all have a duty of care for the future of Australia and its people.

gypsy

Thank you for your deep consideration of my post and your welcome to people of diverse faiths and beliefs to our bountiful country.

c - thank you for a thoughtful and considered article recognising, amongst other important matters, that the majority of australians do not support the current abysmal 'policy' on refugees & asylum seekers. with 90-95% recognised ultimately as 'legal' and hence entitled to remain, the 'policy' is exposed as lacking in cogency. it is fortunate that there are writers and commentators - such as yourself - able to point this out.

Gypsy 1: DITTO. Gypsy 2: DITTO. Well said.

Ammonite: Well duh. Everybody knows that. All religion profess exactly the same thing. It just differs in the way it obtains their aims. Christianity went through the inquisition. The West & the East had & Crusades in the Middle Ages. Islam is going through that phase now. Islam started off with violent invasion & conversion, nothing has changed. Lopping heads off & stoning has been a part of Middle Eastern culture since the Stone Age, nothing has changed. The West & the East have moved o. In the Middle East, nothing has changed. I take it that you are OK with Middle Eastern culture.

Well, Claire darling, by the look of the posts so far, with one unnoticable exception, You lose. Back in your Box." With appologies to Simon.

Ammonite I hear what you are saying and understand to an extent. For the record I am neither christian nor athiest. If anything I would be seen as an agnostic.
What I am pointing out is Australia is fundamently a christian country, whereas many of the refugees relocating to Australia are from muslem countries. We both have different cultures and traditions.
Most Australian people do not want to adapt to muslem culture and their Koran law just as muslems do not want to adapt to our culture and customs which are based on christian bible law.
The proof is in the pudding that the 2 cultures cannot exist together.
As I previously stated in a previous post problems at extreme proportions are occuring in other countries that have axcepted moslem refugees in large numbers. Those countries have discovered the two cultures fail to exist together. Luckily for us in Australia we have not been subjected as yet as other countries but it is beginning to occur here now. Only last week in Sydney a muslem lady had her sentence and conviction over turned due to proof of identification because her appearence was hidden under a burqah. Then there have been cases of muslem refugees being arrested and convicted of terrorist activities and plans of mass slughtering of Australian people. I am not suggesting that all muslem refugees are terrorists, but it is common knowledge they are pleased to sacrifice themselves for their god, they do this as suicide bombers and take as many people they consider as their enemies as possible. They consider all non muslems as their enemy.
Many muslem refugees left their homelands due to government persecution. In many of those countries the people have risen up and have ousted their dictator governments and military, so it would be assumed they can safetly return home to the countries the fled.
Many of the refugee families exist on welfare payments which is at the cost of us the tax payer. I use the principle of "Knowledge is GOOD and ignorence is EVIL. So I research.

gypsy

You and Jayb are confusing religion with culture. And confusing human beings with robots - we adapt and so do the people who migrate to these shores. You do not make the same prejudiced claims against the many people of Asian background, or Pacific Islanders. Just Muslims who are not just from the Middle East and who are not one homogeneous group.

One obstreperous woman in a veil does not equate with a clash of cultures.

You claim you do research. Well, thus far you are revealing a great deal of ignorance, specifically (purposely?) about Islam.

Sorry I should have said, "with 2 unnotable exceptions"

Jocelynne: that the majority of australians do not support the current abysmal 'policy' on refugees & asylum seekers.

Where in heavens name do you get your statistics. Wherever it is they are horribly out of touch. You must have been only to a Mosque & to a few misfit demonstrators to collect your Data. Saying so doesn't make it real. People are fine. It's the Religion, Dogma & Customs that Australians cannot abide. I can put up with most things from Religion, it's the Dogma that I find most offensive, even with Christianity.

Ammonite: You claim you do research. Well, thus far you are revealing a great deal of ignorance, specifically (purposely?) about Islam.

I do a great deal of research on all Religions & Cultures. none of my research has shown that Islam is an accomodating religion. The policy is convert or die. If you convert everything will be peace & happiness. If not... "off with your head." It started with Mahomad being kicked out of Mecca in 622 & then 624 he gathers an army & goes back, the 1st. offensive at Badr. 628 Muhammads message to all rulers to embrace Islam or else. 629 1st. battle near the Dead Sea. 633 Muslims capture Arabia. 624 Battle of Ajnada. 625 Damascus. It hasn't stopped. Violence, violence, violence & subjucation all the way. A peaceful religion? I think not.

Isn't Islam both a religion and a culture?

Doesn't the religion determine how to behave culturally?

Christian cultures, regardless of backsliders, tend to behave in a similar and open way. Canada, Australia, UK, USA and new Zealand .. and these tend to be countries no one is running away from, for reasons many Islamic people come to Australia to "escape"

They come here because our culture, based on Christian generosity and benevolence and tolerance, welcomes everyone.

Where Islam seems to be at odds, everywhere, is that the culture and religion appear to be completely intolerant of everything not condoned specifically by the religion, thus their culture is a reflection of the religion.

So, ammonite, rather than just spraying people who disagree with you, why not consider what they are saying and how they see the world .. you appear to be able to separate culture from religion, that even the participants cannot do .. many Australians cannot seem to be able to separate Islamic culture from the religion..

Perhaps it is the practitioners who are ignorant, and would welcome you to educate them? You could tell them, that their religion, should not determine how they behave, and that their culture, should not be in any way linked to their religious beliefs

That would be very enlightening, tell us how you go with that

How prejudiced are those who view Muslims as somehow inferior to Christians? I am one of those who are completely opposed to the detention of asylum seekers and refugees. Surely Australians should not condone the mental damage resultiing from detention and indefinite uncertainty Red neck commentators who display such ignorance and hostility towards asylum seekers are the ones to be feared. It's so easy to attack a people whose voice is silenced. My friendships with Muslim people and what I have learned from them reveals a deep sense of humanity - and of humour, a fine literary mind, and skills and knowledge that could only benefit and enrich Australia. I too learn and am inspired by their immense courage. Truth is that Muslims, like Christians, vary in the degree to which they observe their faith. Thank you Claire fro this insightful piece.

Jenni: How prejudiced are those who view Muslims as somehow inferior to Christians? I am one of those who are completely opposed to the detention of asylum seekers and refugees.

No one is being prejudiced & I'm sure that no one in Australia sees Middle Eastern POEPLE as inferior. We can say that we arn't infavour of being eventually forced to adopt Middle Eastern Culture. Which is the aim of Islam. Islam is a Middle Eastern religion which still has its values & culture rooted in the Stone Age. Western & Eastern cultures have advanced over time, Middle Eastern culture has not. Middle eastern culture is out of step with Australian culture & therefore not welcome in Australia.

A NOTE: On your name. A Jen in Middle Eastern culture is a male evil demon a Jenni is a female evil demon. ;-)

Claire, do you really want to know who are facing persecution,starvation and death?
Take a look at any refugee camps in Africa. These people have been waiting years before any of these blow-ins arrived without the proper documentation to assess their suitability. Every one of these African refugees have been assessed by UN refugee assessors and found to be genuine.If these so-called boat people want to be assessed then where should we hold them and for how long, being fair to all these Africans from real hell holes like Sudan, Somalia, The Dem republic of Congo, Burrindi and Rwanda. Or should we waive these requirements and keep the African refugees waiting for another 10 years?Ask yourself - what happened to the papers? Wake up to the monumental scam.
Take a look at these Mid Eastern and Afghanis and Pakkis...do they look half starved and persecuted? Some have arrived with suitcases stuffed with tens of thousands of American dollars.
If we are to show solidarity with refugees then send us the REAL refgugees and from Africa and we shall GLADLY show immense solidarity with them.

socratease
You might not know that our policy is to admit 30,000 refugees only and on a first come and first served basis.

Claire
Have you ever taken the trouble to meet and talk with any of these African refugees as I have. I have spoken with 21 of them. Some are from the DPR of Congo, Rwanda,Burrindi, Sudan,Somalia and they all have expressed disappointment at the favoritism being shown to the MidEastern Afghani and pak refugees. These African have been shunted about 6 or 7 times from camp to camp across Africa.They have been assessed and re-asssessed and are still languishing and rotting in these camps. The ones I have met are all well placed in society,some are nurses, security some are in the hospitality trade and one is even trying out to be an AFL footballer for North Melbourne. They dont threaten us, they dont make exorbitant demands on us, they arent threatening to sue the Govt for mental anguish and racist handling. They are so grateful just to be accepted and given a new life and they are seriously contributing to the country of their adoption. Let'shave more of these people who love us.
In Malaysia there are tens of thousands of Burmese Christians longing to make it to Australia.

Why do we have to put up with these Muslim ingrates?
We seem terrified of them and of the vocal and militant refugee industry of which you must be a part.

I despise them.

socratease

Annomite,
Please you are showing a great deal of confusion.

Firstly the values and beliefs of The Jews and Christians are quite different. So different the Jewish priests got the Roman Pontius Pilate to Crucify Jesus Christ (The original Chtistian) simply because he challenged their values and beliefs.

Oh please really! It was Christ who first espoused the concepts of
universal Rejection of Worldly Goods, universal Rejection of Violence, universal Forgiveness - or turning the other cheek, universal Love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christian Marriage was first formalised by the Council of Trent in the 15th Century. Prior to that there were mostly only marriages of 'habit and repute' and marriage was rarely codified in any religion or society.

I would really like to be enlighted in these matters. Please reference the scriptures and laws of the religions and societies in which all the above concepts were predominant or pre-dated Christ? For I can do that quite easily in the Christian World and I'm an irreligious nutter.

Islam has about as much in common with Christianity as man has to women. Both are mono religions abused by humans and men and woman are both human often abused by each other .
The major difference of course is the one is based in forgiveness, which btw greatly influenced the formation of our Western sense of Justice, and the other is rooted in discrimination violence and revenge.
Islam has much much more in common with Judaeism.

imajulianutter

You are entitled to your opinion - and that is all it is.

Ammomite,

Yes but my opinions unlike yours have been formed from a perusal of the relevant texts (Which can be referenced) of the scripture of the religions involved and a reading of the relevant histories and laws of western and other societies(Which also can be referenced).

Your opinions don't seem to quite carry the same weight of argument or seem able to be referenced to historical sources.

Cheers ammo.

Thank you for writing this piece , Claire.

Some of the responses here are deplorable. Many of them seem incapable of putting forward a reasonable argument or civil disagreement, and I can only suggest that like the man who was kicked by a donkey, you overlook the insult on considering the source.

The reason why both Liberal and Labor governments "waste so much money imprisoning" country shopping illegal immigrants, Claire, is because both parties know that this is the wish of the overwhelming majority of their electorates.

Even Labor, the political party most favourable to the idea of replacing the white race in Australia with something else, knows that its agenda is extremely unpopular, and it knows that it can not push their evil agenda too fast.

"three activists will appear in Fairfield Local Court in response to charges related to a protest on the roof of Immigration Minister Chris Bowen’s electoral office."

If they were not getting so much on welfare - they would have been working instead of indulging their whimspical obsession with "activism".

Illegal arrivals - those who try to circumvent the appropriate processes Australia has in place to screen refugees for criminal background, communicable diseases, ability to assimilate into Australia etc - display a contempt for Australia and thus fail to pass the character test and should be deported back from where the set sail/ fly out of immediately and wiht no right to appeal and forfiet all right to apply as a legal refugee in the future.

I see the author of the article is just another Greenpeace activists...

Activists are very good at protesting their right to run roughshod over the rights of ordinary Australians, in the name of Activism/Demonstration and Anarchy by invading private offices and stretching the application of their "activism" beyond what is legal and into the illegal

In all the discussion and comments there are some points not yet made.

1. Many of the boat people are reported to have thrown away their identifying documents such as passports. This creates numerous problems. First, the costs of identifying who they are and confirming their verbal claims of refugee status are considerable. Second, the natural question that arises is why have you thrown away your documents?

My view is that those wishing to immigrate to this country should be advised that they must bring their documents. No documents. No entry. Sorry.

2. Those that we do let into the country should be required to sign a contract that makes it quite clear and specific that they must observe Australian law, learn English and limit the degree to which they become dependent on the Australian tax payer. If these people knowingly breach our laws, they should be aware that they could lose their rights to live here if the breaches are sufficiently serious. Less serious breaches might be dealt with by reducing access to social benefits. Either way it should be made clear to these people what is required of them if they are to live here.

3. It should be explained to these people that for security reasons, people who want to live here need to be able to identify themselves. This can be done be various means - photos on licenses, fingerprints, identity card etc.

4. Living in a modern society like ours involves rights and obligations. The obligations require making contributions (by way of paying taxes for example) in return for the benefits (access to welfare etc).

Apparently these things did not need to be explained to the Greek and Italian immigrants of the 50s and 60s who have made such a positive contribution to Australia. But surely there is no harm in explaining them to the new wave of refugees and and immigrants.
Observance of these points will ease the concerns of many Australians.

Why do we do it?

I suspect the main reason is because it appears to reduce the flow of others coming here via the same means plus some cultural cringe factor when we see images of the boats they come in. I'm uncertain as to how much the numbers are impacted by the deterant and how much is other factors. Too many vested interests involved in the analysis I've seen.

Herbert the reported loss of documents is another interesting factor. On the one hand I can imagine how easily I could loose contact with the necessary documents if my home was destroyed and I was fleeing across the world via refugee camps and dependant on a variety of well meaning helpers and or paid thugs for my survival.

On the other hand I suspect that it would be even harder to keep hold of the sort of money required to pay the smugglers in such conditions. I suspect that the ones who have actually lost documents would not have the resources to get here.

I remember when I was somewhat younger all the stories of italian crime gang's, italian involvment in growing drugs etc. Without the foreign religion aspect many of the same concerns raised about muslim migrants were raised about italian's. More recently it was asian's in the spotlight.

Each time there was an element of truth to the concerns raised but the exageration on one side of the debate and the denial of any problems on the other made it hard to address the actual issues which should have been addressed.

R0bert

I agree with Herbert, they had to have their passports when they arrive
in Indonesia, otherwise they could not have boarded aircraft.

They must have sold their assets in their country, gone to a travel
agent bought a plane ticket and flown to Indonesia or Malaysia.
I suspect only a small percentage were under any threat in their own
country and then only from criminal gangs.

Most of those could have solved their problem by moving to a different
town in their own country.

They must have something to hide by disposing of their passports etc.
We cannot take any more of these types of "migrants".

Pathetic article; the author lists supposed reasons why people are against our latest refugee intake by- not actually finding out what they are- but by pulling random hearsay in relation to other countries supposed reasons (likely quoted by a person not part of the movement either).

The answer is simple in Australia- quite a few of the people we are taking in as refugees are religious fanatics and cut-throats who do not integrate- and that being the case we do not want more people like Hilali, the Skaff brothers, the recent Somali criminals to be moved into our neighborhoods.
If a refugee has their application rejected, they should be deported.

The part at the bottom explaining how immigration control = corporate control is all well and good- however, you could simply allow the public to vote on entry criteria instead- thus making it a matter of people power controlling the borders instead.

After reading many of the posts there have been many good points positive and negative.
My deduction is;
(1) What constitutes a legitimate refugee?
(2) Should or can entirely different religions, cultures and laws exist and assimiliate together?
(3) Do refugee's who jump the queue by illegally entering Australia ahead of others which are using the proper process entiled to be accepted?
(4) At what is the effects and costs to the Australian People,
a/ In jobs?
b/ In housing?
c/ In welfare?
(5) How many refugees and immigrants participate in committing criminal offences?
Currently in Melbourne there is a war waging between 2 criminal family cartels of Lebonese nationality as reported in the Heral sun news paper 28/06/2011. Shots fired into homes, and car shootings on roads, fire bombings etcetera. Should those 2 families be deported back to Lebanon where they came from and possibly as refugees?
I am looking forward to the answers and comments both positive and negative.

gypsy,
It may be a way to stop the illegals from coming if the government proclaims that, as the african refugees have to wait 10 years, then the illegals will have to wait 10 years before assesment. So they do not get precedence.

All the same, I think that to deny them permanent residence visas and open up Nauru would likely stop them coming.

Briar rose: Many of them seem incapable of putting forward a reasonable argument.

I defy you to prove my arguements incorrect.

Ammonite: You are entitled to your opinion - and that is all it is.

But Ammonite. It's the popular opinion & a correct one.

Socratese: In Malaysia there are tens of thousands of Burmese Christians longing to make it to Australia.

You can just bet that none of them make the 800 list.

Amicus: My friend. That would be very enlightening, tell us how you go with that.

Yes, I'd like to see that too. We all would, I think.

Ammo: gypsy and Jayb are confusing religion with culture.

We don't think so, appologies Gypsy.

Ammo: In fact Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

Considering that Mahomud first wife was a christian, No, not the baby one. Muslims don't care if Christians do have things in common. Christians are still infadels & as such are not human, & should be killed. That's coming from a peaceful religion?

"et tu quoque" literally translated "& you too"

LEGO: The reason why both Liberal and Labor governments "waste so much money imprisoning" country shopping illegal immigrants, Claire, is because both parties know that this is the wish of the overwhelming majority of their electorates.

Wrong LEGO. Most Australians want them sent home or to some other Muslim country where they would be culturally much more at home.

King Hazza: , you could simply allow the public to vote on entry criteria instead- thus making it a matter of people power controlling the borders instead.

They won't do that Hazza. They already know what the outcome would be & the bleeding hearts would not be happy.

Gypsy:
(1) What constitutes a legitimate refugee?

The phrase “well-founded fear of being persecuted” is the key phrase of the definition in the UN Handbook. BUT... it goes on to set out specifics. One of them, in short, is, they cannot shop around.

(2) Should or can entirely different religions, cultures and laws exist and assimiliate together?

In most cases yes. e.g. Hindu, Buddism. Islam? No! Though not through anyone fault but their own.

(3) Do refugee's who jump the queue by illegally entering Australia ahead of others which are using the proper process entiled to be accepted?

No! definately NO!

(4) At what is the effects and costs to the Australian People, a/ In jobs? b/ In housing? c/ In welfare?

$1.2 Billion accomodating queue jumpers, that answers that question.

(5) How many refugees and immigrants participate in committing criminal offences?

A good Question. Was there an Italian Mafia? Most definately Yes, Tully/ Malanda/ Ingham mostly some Burdekin, mostly extorsion. I grew up with the italians in Nth Qld. Lebanese? Most definately, longest running crime syndicates in Australia, Sydney & Melbourne. Chinese? Triad... most definately especialy in Sydney. Rest of Sth East Asia? Yes, mostly drugs, independent communities. Greek, Yes, Melbourne, Mostly standover, car crime. Middle East, Yes drugs, Cars, standover, welfare & money laundering. This does not mean that all these people are into crime.